Rent Free housing - KS/grace period only? -- (Dev) Replied

I was a bit surprised to see the "new tiers" are almost the same as the KS/Grace Period tiers in regards to rent-free housing. I actually didn't think housing of any kind would be offered after the initial offerings expired.

Had I known, I may have waited somewhat longer to "buy in". I may have waited as much as a year (or however long the new tiers will be offered). Why buy early and risk funds if one can wait for an extended period to better gauge the long term viability of the project?

Maybe I missed a communication somewhere, but does anyone know if there will be limited availability for the new tiers? I would like to think that a limitless number of houses cannot be purchased before launch.

I have spent the last few weeks recovering from a cardiac procedure, so I haven't been able to keep up with all the information.......

 

Thanks for pointing that out, I had missed that detail in the pledge update from a couple days ago.

I too was under the impression that rent-free housing was exclusively a KS benefit.

From the KS page:

"Once a house is purchased, players will need to pay regular taxes on it of course. But as a special thank you to select Kickstarter supporters, all housing obtained by making a Kickstarter pledge of Citizen, Lord, Baron, Duke or Lord of the Manor will be tax free for life!"

I'm assuming that rent and tax, in this case, are referring to the same thing? While the phrasing is loose enough to get around if the devs want to ("yes KS is tax free, but we never said other people wouldn't be"), I think it definitely goes against the implications of the wording.

If the new tiers will also be offering rent/tax free housing, I am definitely disappointed. I don't really mind them offering housing that's not rent/tax exempt, as long as they keep the caps on the numbers the same (or increase them a bit since the map size was doubled...but be fair on the additional numbers).

To me, it doesn't really matter if the housing spots are filled up via pledges or through whichever method they use post-launch (lottery or otherwise). But if the housing caps aren't adhered to because it's a good tool to funnel more pledge money...then that's a serious problem that would significantly devalue all the KS housing level backers.

Hope we hear some clarification on this soon...

 

Tell me about it, this is such a huge bummer. I only donated money to grab a sexy house, and the problem is now that too many nubs are also going to get houses. And rent free I mean it doesn't really effect how I will play, not one iota in any way really, but I just wont be in an exclusive home ownership program any longer So many nubs owning houses is seriously going to cramp my Platinum Club style.

Devs, maybe we could 'dev" a gated community for kickstarters? Let the kickstarter housing boomers get their own instance, or better yet own city, for our housing. We can call it... The City of Lenders. Possibly, The Fannie & Freddy community for Subprime Warriors? I think that would be sweet as.

Not just that, but the gated community homes should have Unique Ultra Rare KS only furniture, carpet, roofing, lawns, trees, oh I can go on forever. Everything is unique to the MAX and people will flock to see it. They will beg you to give it to them, but you wont. Instead what you'll do is let US charge THEM to get into the community so we can brag about it while they drool all over their nub faces.

Great topic, thanks for raising it!

 

@InsaneMembrane, ignoring your condescending sarcasm, what it boils down to is that Portalarium offered certain benefits in exchange for a certain amount of money to increase their funding to develop the game. At the lower tiers, it's mostly a pre-purchase of the game with some in-game and out-of-game swag to go along with it. At the higher tiers, the property is arguably a very valuable in-game benefit.

So, we all just want to get what we paid for. It's not about being elite and exclusive, it's about maintaining the value of the pledge.

If the taxes being a KS-only benefit was a misunderstanding on my part, then so be it, I misunderstood and it's no big deal. I'd still be receiving the same value as Portalarium originally intended. But if it's a modification after the fact on their part, then it's a bit dishonest and, while relatively minor to the overall value of the property pledges, goes against the spirit of the KS fundraising campaign.

 

Ok Ok... I apologize slightly for that, but no more because when people pop in and sound like that... Motives are questionable. That being said, if they were to charge double for a house on new players, would you still be upset? You got what you wanted, and paid for it what you agreed, I really don't see a problem if they want to sell houses to people at greater or even less cost. At no point in time did Lord British ever get in front of a camera and say "You will get houses cheap, you'll corner the market, and you'll be able to sell them on E-Bay to buy a car." Nope, didn't hear that...

Anyway, what I read is that up until the 20th if you make any donation, you are eligible for the KS tier. So it would look like this:
1. Today I donate 50 bucks. No house.
2. 20th KS tier ends.
3. 22nd I donate another wad of cash that makes me a knight. I still get the house, as I donated before the 20th and am eligible for KS tiers.
4. A nub comes in on the 24th and donates to Knight, what happens? One would think, no house?

This is what my understanding of it was after reading their updates, it too could be incorrect. But maybe that is where the OP's misunderstanding could be?

 

I am also disappointed with this development as well as I was 80-90% sure that the rent/tax free perk of the house as well as the vendor where stated to be only available through the KS campaign (and it's associated much-to-extended grace period). Hew has tried to raise this in a diplomatic manner (and in my opinion was subsequently unfairly mocked and ridiculed for it), so I will not do that and instead say plainly that I believe this to be a very *not-nice* (fill in with other verbs) thing to do to the early backers (of which I am one).

It's basically devaluing our original investments that were supposedly to be limited (and hence almost unique and highly valued). In my mind, it was marketed as such. Value is directly related to supply and demand.

I also take exception (although it wasn't directed at me, but I assume it would equally apply) to the "Motives are questionable" comment; what does this actually mean or allude to? No matter what motives are, that is irrelevant, as if the promise was made, then the promise should be kept - end of story.

At the very least, I'm not a happy camper.

 

@Ghii and @D

OK, (Deep breath) where to begin...

Do you not want the funding to continue for this game? Honestly, I thought they removed too much from the higher end pledges.

Look over at Star Citizen, they are close to 10 mil ! How? Well they didn't depreciate, to any great extent, the value of their pledge tiers after kickstarter. A reason I just gave them a few hundred myself.

I don't give a damn if post KS the tiers remain as is, as long as we get more and more $$$$$$. A few perks i'm ok with, but lets not diminish the value too much where we don't get new pledges.

Who the hell is gonna pledge over $500 for no house? LOL

 

Don't forget, Early Backers will gain priority house placement vs Post KS too.

 

GD - will they? They already took away what was to be a unique KS backer reward.

 

@Duke : What are you referring to that they took away?

Oh, NVM, the rent free part lol

 

I am also disappointed rent free isn't a KS exclusive; although I don't think Portalarium every said specifically it would be. It would be a nice thing to be exclusive, or at least see a time limit on the rent-free status of post-KS deeds. However, the new Tiers do cost a little more.

In the end, as long as I get my rent free deed and some good placement I don't mind if the game continues to reach goals and get good funding.

 

@Umbrae : Way to be and well said.

 

wondering how closely people read the differences between the new and old tiers. Effectively the new tiers are the ORIGINAL tiers before all the extras were added and I have to ask what would make any of you shell out $550 if you DIDN'T get a house? Its not going to happen

They don't get the vendor, they don't get priority placement, they don't get the upscale house, they don't get the waterfront house and they have to pay more for the privilege. Seriously I don't think there is any reason to complain

 

I don't mind at all that they get rent free houses and comission free vendors, they are paying an extra $50+, getting far fewer perks.. just read through that list of awesome stuff we get and the wont. I think it's a well balanced mix of removing unique things and leaving somethings intact to make them desirable and worthwhile.

I get an expert crafting table and they don't Woohoo! Glad I pledged early. Also the waterfront properties will be unique to us, how awesome is that? pets and/or servants as well. neat really cool stuff there that will be unique to only around a thousand of us. This game will likely have hundreds of thousands of players. We should be happy that we got the opportunity to get all of these unique and rare things.

 

@Gunga Din: I do apologize if my post came off as some kind of angry rant. I certainly want the contributions to keep rolling in.

This was my first KS project and I wasn't aware that any of the projects continued offering rewards similar to the KS rewards. As my post title states, I was mostly interested in asking if others also thought the Rent Free housing (for life) was a KS exclusive.

Second, I mentioned that "I would like to think that a limitless number of houses cannot be purchased before launch." I still hold that opinion - not whining, just my opinion.

I guess I was thinking the new tiers would be more limited than "free for life" - maybe for the first 5 expansions, of 25% of normal rent - that sort of thing. I certainly agree that nobody is going to pay $500+ w/o expecting some kind of a housing break.

I have recently pledged $500 (Grand King) to the Hex TCG KS. One of the Grand King main perks is one free draft per week for life. There are currently 2 tiers, 1000 "spots" each for the free draft. One has been filled, the other is about half claimed. Some folks over there are concerned that Cryptozoic might add new levels for the free draft, and if done, it could negatively impact the game. I'm not an expert on TCGs, but some of the contributors seem to have valid concerns about an over abundance of free drafts - one being players will join a draft, then bail just to get the free cards. By the way, if any readers are trading card game fans, checkout the Hex KS. This looks to be an awesome game - a TCG with PVP, PVE, Dungeons, multiplayer, guilds, Raids, etc.

Bottom line, it would be nice to see the project owners more clearly state which rewards will absolutely not be offered in any form after the campaign. Right now, a contributor cannot be sure just how exclusive any particular reward might be.

Again, not an angry rant, just some observations and personal opinions. I have full confidence that this will be a great game and cannot wait to start playing (I am still playing UO!).

 

@Ghii : No problem mate. I only recently discovered Kickstarter projects as well, but from exploring how other games have handled the Post-KS campaign, I just have differing views.

You bring up some valid points and all discussions on the matter are welcome.

 

tbh, I'm perfectly happy if they have a million people buy houses. That means a lot of dollars going into the game, a lot of dedicated players, and doesn't cost me anything.

I don't even know what the rent would have been or if it goes to a player controlled castle lord or is just a money sink.

 

This is only the start of the outrage people will show for little things. It is the one burden of kickstarters in the self entitlement many seem to get.

If they never said any of the items were exclusive during the kickstarter then there really is not issue.

 

@Hew: I had the same impression after reading that paragraph, that rent free part will be available only to kickstarter backers. Now I'm not even sure if the amount of the house tier pledges will be limited or not.

@Gunga: While I want this project to succeed, I also want crowdfunding system to be successful, and honestly if I had to choose, I'm more concerned about the latter than the former. As I have said in another thread extending kickstarter tier pledged indefinitely jeopardizes the kickstarter funding system. If I knew that pledges would be available way past the end of the campaign I would just wait as long as possible to make sure the game is not a flop. If at least half people decided to do the same the game would barely make the initial goal.

I'm sure even if the campaign failed they had enough funds to continue development, but since they decided to use kickstarter they should play fairly and not ruin the system for those who don't have spare millions in their pockets.

 

I see two problems with unlimited housing. Too many houses is a blight - just look at UO, even 15 years after launch. The land is virtually polluted with housing.

I know that SotA intends to control blight by limiting the number of plots where houses can be placed, but that causes the second problem: persons that have spent $500+ for a house somewhat expect a reasonable chance to place it early on in the game.

If they cannot, they will complain loudly wanting to know why the devs allowed so many deeds to be purchased (I saw this time and time again in UO). This can have an adverse impact on the game's reputation.

Some may think this is an unjustified sense of entitlement. With fair warning of the limitations, it probably is, but human nature being what it is, I am certain that it is in the games best interest, to not sell too many more houses, than there are plots to place them.......