Eating Our Friends RG talked about this...

More "depth" is not always a good thing. Case in point: Crafting. How about bladder related features? Sleep anyone? Imagine if the ladies had to put on their makeup every game morning? Even depth, immersion and RP should have their limits.

 

"Could a Cannibal Be a Good Cannibal?"
What if a Cannibal only ate PK or Evil NPCs?
~Time Lord~

 

+ 11 (yes, eleven)

 

New

Bowen Bloodgood said: ↑

Even depth, immersion and RP should have their limits.​

+ 11 (yes, eleven)​

Sunsanvil, 7 minutes ago

Why should they have their limits? Why should anyone be limited in New Britannia? Is this on "Moral" grounds? Is this on some worry about something? Looting dead bodies was considered hideous before Ultima Online, so why is it now that this is totally acceptable behavior? We could also cut up our opponents bodies in that game.
"Is this Some Sort of Prude Issue Now?"
Walt Disney Can Do This and Richard Garriott is Somehow Singled Out?
Dose the general public not watch horror movies and the Adams Family by such standards? The Grandmother of the Adams Family always had a hand in her soup and "Thing" is a disembodied walking hand...
~Time Lord~

 

@Time Lord. Yes, speaking for myself, I do watch some of those kinds of movies. The ones where they don't make the whole movie nothing but blood and guts to compensate for a lack of any plot or just for the sake of feeding some warped desire to see an excess of blood and guts. I do not watch any movie that is over the top like that.

I like some vampire movies once in a while, but there again, it's for the length of the movie and I'm not trying to "live" in that world. Most zombie movies, to me, are just stupid. Night of the Living Dead was a classic, but since then they've just all gone ridiculous.

The Adams Family you mention only lasts a couple hours at most, only shows the things you mentioned briefly and intermittently throughout that couple hours, and it does not dwell on the murdering, skinning, butchering, and eating people.

In a game that we "live" in, our fantasy life, having that be a part of it would be just plain distasteful and disturbing. And I don't recall too many historical accounts of medieval times where cannibalism was an accepted practice with human body parts hanging at the local butcher's. When I contemplate a medieval fantasy world I want to "live" in, cannibals just never come to mind.

And with all that said, I'll leave you with this....
N: "Time Lord, I'm sorry but I just can't stand your friends."
TL: "That's ok Noctiflora, just eat the vegetables."

**ducks**

 

Yes, that is the idea. But, as players, this really is all in good fun...

As I'm writing it in this document, cannibalism will have to be hidden from the bulk (let's assume 95% or something) of the populace, as they find it revolting and subhuman.

However, there may be that 5% that will accept this practice.

I'm also doing my best to remove the humiliation aspect of it from PvP (no player names body parts for starters; players will have to OPT IN to having their names on their body parts).

 

@Time Lord. Yes, speaking for myself, I do watch some of those kinds of movies. The ones where they don't make the whole movie nothing but blood and guts to compensate for a lack of any plot or just for the sake of feeding some warped desire to see an excess of blood and guts. I do not watch any movie that is over the top like that.

I like some vampire movies once in a while, but there again, it's for the length of the movie and I'm not trying to "live" in that world. Most zombie movies, to me, are just stupid. Night of the Living Dead was a classic, but since then they've just all gone ridiculous.

The Adams Family you mention only lasts a couple hours at most, only shows the things you mentioned briefly and intermittently throughout that couple hours, and it does not dwell on the murdering, skinning, butchering, and eating people.

In a game that we "live" in, our fantasy life, having that be a part of it would be just plain distasteful and disturbing. And I don't recall too many historical accounts of medieval times where cannibalism was an accepted practice with human body parts hanging at the local butcher's. When I contemplate a medieval fantasy world I want to "live" in, cannibals just never come to mind.

And with all that said, I'll leave you with this....
N: "Time Lord, I'm sorry but I just can't stand your friends."
TL: "That's ok Noctiflora, just eat the vegetables."

**ducks**

Noctiflora, 31 minutes ago

Thank You Noctiflora I too will be eating my vegetables in our game

"I believe that your opinion is every bit as important as every other player that posts here!"
This is a very serious subject... and if we don't talk about it now and it is placed into our game without our input, then we get what we get and that's that... This is why I felt that is was "so important" to bring to the general public attention and needed not to be ignored for all our sakes and interests.
Currently it would seem that those who would wish to play their Character/Avatar in this way, will have some very serious issues to deal with in many different horrid consequences for their actions.
"A Cannibals Life in New Britannia Could be Called the Toughest Play to a No Reward Ending Trail of Misery and Despair"!<---<<< I cannot emphasize that enough, this is the toughest way anyone will be able to engage in our game and becomes almost impossible to decelerate from or change your ways back from! It's nothing but a road to total despair and self destruction with few up sides to it as that player heads to it's enviable doom!
The PvP and PK's life style have nothing tough about them in comparison with the Cannibal.
And that's how it should be a path into nothingness with no reward other than some rare's to sell if anyone would want to buy them before the Cannibal's demise.
"The PK and PvP should run for their lives from the Cannibal"!
(((Does anyone here remember "The Three Stooges" in "Worlds of Ultima; The Savage Empire?" Then try to imagine if those tribes were Cannibals)))
A Cannibal must eat more and more. Every other food is almost worthless or makes them puke offering no value at all. Imagine their very short life span and terrible afflictions in common life, causing them to be weak and almost helpless in fighting. Then imagine a well fed Cannibal, stronger than any and more powerful the more they eat, yet must eat ever more and more increasing to an amount that cannot be eaten. Then imagine that Cannibal headed back down a very speedy pathway to ultimately becoming a painful creature to see staving and helpless, just waiting for anyone to kill them or be able to save them from at "Great Expense!" to the Cannibal, because nothing else will save them. Thus, who needs a PK when you've got something truly worthy as the Cannibal. The PvP and PK grow flowers by comparison.


"That's how serious this issue can be my wonderful friend Noctiflora if we do not have such wonderful input as yours, as every ones into this issue before we have to live with what we get"...

And that's why I raised the issue, because I am very concerned as you are and we all should be...
~Time Lord~

 

Ok, someone please moderate Time Lord until he learns to tone down his fonts/colors.

I appreciate what you have to say dude, but seriously its hard on the eyes.

 

This was a feature in UO. If anything, this discussion is facilitating the opinions of folks who are AGAINST this feature being included. Ridiculous slippery slope arguments, red herrings and ad hominem aspersions are neither valid or helpful. You have been invited to share your opinion, so don't act as if you are being attacked.

If I roll my eyes any harder I'll snap my optic nerve. Recommended reading: www.logicalfallacies.info

That being said, it is obvious this idea bothers some people, and that should of course be taken into consideration. Just please don't shoot down every comment; It can be really helpful to acknowledge the points of others who disagree with you.

Indeed. So let's proceed with this theoretical discussion without acting as if proponents of this idea are defending RL cannibalistic practices. There have been arguments for total realism before, as Bowen mentioned "the sex thread" and agree with his opinion on that. Please note the very different response from the community at large when it comes to gender & sexuality issues.

If consent is the issue, that can be dealt with. If gore / age-appropriate content is an issue, that can be dealt with. The question is, does it add anything to the game? I've given my opinion that it could, and how I would prefer such activities be incorporated into the fabric of the game. We've heard from people about how they found this all good fun in UO - maybe I'm wrong and it should be a silly thing. The graphics in UO provided a bit of a buffer when it came to gore - Shroud has the potential to be much more grisly.

I wonder if anyone on the team recalls their experience with complaints regarding this feature.

How would you folks feel about having your corpse eaten by a monster in PVE? Would it disgust you? What if it were a human NPC, or a kobold? For that matter, what if cannibalism was a practice of the kobolds that became enshrined from being isolated in the Underworld during the cataclysm? A survival mechanism that became a ritual practice. What if there are rumors of a tribe of humans that split off during the Cave Times, to be discovered deep below the surface of Novia? Is it the THEME of cannibalism that bothers you, or the thought of having your own electronic body gobbled up?

 

PUT YOU IN MY OVEN!!!

 

Part of the issue here is how much "detachment" do people have with their characters

For some it may not be as easy as "its happening to a pixelated object / so I don't care" ... I think for some it would be the complete opposite

I also don't think that cannibalism is the only issue being discussed either - folks are not only for it to be in the "lore" they want to simulate it / emotes / cutting parts of people / feeding it to unsuspecting players / parade it for all to see

Its easy to see how this can not be good for the game / players don't always behave / and use game mechanics for all sorts of devious things ... I imagine that the devs are aware of this and hopefully don't introduce something into the game that can be easily abused

@Rild - great points - for me I want the world to make sense - its one of my top priorities for being here ... so if it fits the lore - thats great BUT lore also needs to make sense as well

Just because there is cannibalism in the world - this does not give players the license to make cannibal shops - or to trivialize such a grotesque act as if I asked my friend to "pull my finger"

I care a lot about the world I will be playing in / and I know what challenges this presents for the dev team but this is a RPG ... I think the world needs to take precedence ... it needs to be protected in order to maintain coherence

This doesn't mean to restrict players and not let them be creative but in any project - "creativity" may have to be focused to ensure the world remains the creation of the "creator"

Honestly if this game becomes a lets add things in here because its silly fun ... I won't play here ... this statement is not about cannibalism its just a general statement ... I truly care about the world and "how" it is constructed and "represented" once the game is live

If cannibal shops are present at every corner it will break the game for me ... its that simple - I don't see any world where this is possible unless some insane things occurred but that does not seem to be the case in this universe

Again / its all about the incorporation

does it make sense? does it add value? Does it add "richness" to the world? / Can it be abused? / Will this ruin the experience of other? / Is it offensive but if handled properly can add depth? Is it worth the trouble? / Is this what we want our game to be known for? / How would that affect our game population? / If we care about role players how will this impact their world and play?

 

I agree with the other Time Lord.

Why disagree with this based on a moral issue? The game tracks your ethics! Therefore the more ethical dilemmas the better. Yet that's just me. Yeah I'm me.

 

This is part of the problem, from my point of view, if he really does think of the issue this way. Something like cannibalism shouldn't be added "for a laugh" - it's a serious and disturbing topic and should be treated as such. If they do put it into the game, it needs to be handled right.

Exactly - how it's done would be the biggest hurdle, I think. I said earlier in the thread that I don't want to see this, but I'm just expressing my opinion on the issue. I really hope it does not make it into the game, but I seem to be in a minority (at least of people willing to express an opinion that goes against the more vocal posters. ) If it IS going to be included then I just hope it's done in a way that makes sense and has meaningful effects and consequences (not just "hey, this'd be cool!") - and can be completely avoided by those who find it too offensive.

 

I will answer Time Lord's question with 2 words.

Common sense.

We have limits for a reason.. Although common sense seems to be more and more a foreign concept in the world these days. Imagine for example if say.. theft were legal where you live. What if say.. all games had no rules? What would be the point? Any society is defined in part by limits.

As Margard points out, no where in the history of any civilized society would you ever find cannibal shops sitting out there in the street corner.

 

I think that this was said jokingly.

Even so, in the original Fallout you could purchase a strange meat from a man named "Bob Iguana" called 'Iguana-on-a-stick.'

I don't know about you, but I'd never seen any iguanas even close to Junktown.

In any case, I doubt SotA will have the incidental cannibalism that the original Fallout had via Bob Iguana.

It's certainly not in my proposal, anyway. Even if RG threw it in with a sense of humor, I doubt Starr would let it pass.

 

Frankly, I'm on the side of allow it, but certainly do not trivialize it (e.g. no corner people meat shops). It should definitely come with serious drawbacks. For example, if you've seen the movie The Book of Eli (great post-apocalypse movie starring Denzel Washington), one of the signs that someone is a cannibal is they have shakes. To imitate this you could maybe take a significant hit to dexterity and/or intelligence the more you eat - in addition to the massive karma loss, being shunned from society, etc.

I guess what I'm saying is, there should be severe penalties for doing this in game - to the point where the *only* reason it would make sense to do so is if the player was RP'ing a Hannibal Lecter type evil character.

 

Thank you for your open-mindedness!

I'm currently drafting a proposal via Google Docs that I intend to send to the Development Team upon its completion.

I would be interested in hearing any constructive criticism (or original ideas) that you're willing to offer, so please check your inbox for a link to the document.

Please remember that it is a work in progress.

 

Great point. Let society have limits, and let us "outlaws" eat our friends if we want to. Haahahahahha!

You may never know how good your friend is unless you taste some bacon made from his fanny.

 

"Common Sense and Constructive Suggestions"

We could have a limit based on the overall population of the online game. This would not only limit the amount of Cannibals, but also become a danger to the Cannibal player. Fore, if they were a Cannibal and then got killed, they may loose their spot as a Cannibal player and still be afflicted with the deses part of their cannibalism and need to spend serious resources to still try and cure themselves.

Many people can go watch horror movies outside of our game, yet to me, that in itself is a hideous thing to do. Vampires drinking blood is entertainment? OMG where's an argument for common sense there, or some sort of moral outrage?

I can't see us limiting the artists ability to proceed with their vision, yet I can have a say in any suggestion I can make to limit it's impact by stressing the most heavy consequences because the artist is open for suggestions. I no more want to see EA or Origins limit the artist no more than me or anyone else obstructing their vision. This is not a board of directors we have here and we are not talking about any player rewards for us to be able to demand anything. yet what we can do is make suggestions as to how something like this may better fit into the needs of our game to limit through consequence bad behavior.

Will the Cannibals get a boost more from eating themselves which could further limit their ability to become any more than a strange obscure community? Many such suggestions can be implemented and further reduce the amount of their game style. I am also sure that by having Cannibals, we could see a great reduction on any PK community we may develop in the future.

Cannibals have been with us since the beginning of time and I'm sure the Conquistadors would agree that facing Cannibals is no fun, yet it's a game we are talking about, not any real life thing. I still can't see how looting is so easy and accepted as if it were nothing. Do I need to show that video of taking rings off dead bodies again? It's a few pages back and I'm certain it was a real moral outrage.

We could see them limited to a tribal area, just as the PK were in UO, yet their funds may be that of DS's necromancer community who also needs body parts. But then maybe raising the dead as zombies is somehow different in a commons sense view. I don't truly know because if I am judged as not having any common sense because I offer suggestion to something that may come anyway, then I may not be able to offer an objective view or suggestion because I am therefore an uncommon man.

I want to play the nicest character in our SotA world, yet the tough among us seem softer than me now, if they cannot say anything but "no". If we all take that view, then we get what we get with no suggestive viewpoints of our own to have effected that outcome. I believe the only common sense thing to do then, is to continue to offer constructive suggestions.

Constructive suggestions, that's all we ever have to help our game now...
~Time Lord~