State of crafting

Greetings Devs,

I know you are working on a crafting revamp right now but I cannot help to think this is a good time to bring up this topic once again. There is a bit of concern with the state of armor and clothing in the game as it pertains to crafting.

Over the last few months, we've seen you guys add some great new items that are armor and clothing to the roster. Weve seen great new 1/2 and 3/4 plate mail to the game, weve seen you add great new aesthetically enhanced chainmail and augmented leather, and we even have great looking Epic Cloth armor we've had for a while. For at least one release SOME of these items have been craftable then inexplicably the crafted items they produced were reverted to the old models.

Every time that new clothing or armor has been added so far, it has been added to NPC shops OR it has been added to the addon store OR it has been added as a reward but only until VERY recently has *any* of this been added into the crafting system.

We received chekered cloaks that were dyable, and we received single blank cloaks that were dyable.... but none of this stuff was added to crafting... instead they have been added as rewards in various situations? Then we have the addon store / release hats... We are VERY thankful to have these hats present but things like a Cavalier hat, Tricorn hat, perhaps even the bonnet - these are all things that SHOULD by all means be craftable items tailors and/or armorsmiths should have access to craft as well?

Then we have items that should have been but have NEVER been added to the list of craftable items such as the fortified cloth, merchant skirt, merchant clothing etc. This is all content that exists in game already but has yet to actually be made craftable... so crafters have this perception of sitting and waiting and watching yet more clothing and armor be put in the game that they can not make (which by the way, is supposed to be their job - to make that stuff).

I think we all understand that this is a bit of a moving target and that you are working on this. It would be nice to get a statement on these action items though. This is something that we've been sort of waiting on some kind of movement on from the sidelines for a pretty long time now.

 

(@Attenwood, I believe you requested this thread.)

I agree 100% with everything that Kazyn has said above.

I wish to add the following talking points:

I understand that creating new clothing assets is just as complex, if not moreso, as creating new creatures in the game. There are several factors that are taken into consideration, making an item, texturing it, then making it fit to both the male and female models, and testing it to make sure it doesn't have any weird deformations when running the gamut of emotes and regular player model animations. After that, there's the addition of the cloth physics and testing to make sure nothing weird happens, like we had with the cloaks for the first few releases after the Unity 5 transition. It's a truly rigorous process and I appreciate the work that is done.

In spite of that, we have had many new clothing items introduced, and old ones are still hanging around, and yet they are not craftable. The recipes have not been added into the player-facing database. New items are showing up on the add-on store, meaning that if anyone wants to differentiate their wardrobe from anyone else in the game, they most likely have to pay money to do so. Some folks don't have a problem with that, some folks do. Three variants of the new bodice were created, and only one is craftable. Cloaks have been in game for ages, and the most basic one is an in-game purchase for 100g, where it could EASILY be made into a recipe and given to the players, then removed from the NPC vendor database. The same could be said for the striped and checkered cloaks as well.

I know that Portalarium needs to be able to sustain funding for the game so that it can continue to be developed not just now, but for many years to come. I know that one of the best ways to do that is to offer tantalizing items on the add-on store that make people click 'buy' before you can say "in game soon". Trust me, I've invested almost $1000 in add-on store deliverables, including clothing items, because I believe in the game, want to support the development of the game, and love having these items.

That being said, it's starting to look bleak on the tailoring front.

We currently have five (5) non-armor-based wearables that can be made by tailors. (Coconut Bra, Wolf Hat, Bear Hat, Bodice Top, Bodice Bottoms) However, since they use the same system as armor, they technically count as armor. I'm fine with that. Where is a basic shirt? Pants that don't cut off at mid-calf in favor of some other material? Varieties in leather boots? A shirt + vest combination top? (I know that layered clothing is not in scope for Episode 1) This further pleads the case for player-made and dyeable crafted items. Also, where are the kilts and skirts? A basic universal item could cover both as a start.

It would be enough to have the Fortified Cloth, Epic Merchant, Cloth Merchant, and other items (Augmented Leather, Epic Leather, etc) as player craftable with their own recipes, and have the cloth items dyeable, with the leather items colored by the choice of leather used, as is the case with cloth/leather armor. (Well, except for the cloth and leather caps, which are one color by default and can't be re-dyed.)

I guess I'm asking for a refactor of existing NPC clothing and armor assets so that they fall in line with player crafted items, and then give these to the players in recipe format. Also, I would ask to have the striped and checkered cloaks made into recipes as well, because while yes, it was nice to receive these as pledge rewards, we didn't ask for that. I'm also not asking that the current Add-on store / Stretch Goal store clothing be included in this refactor. Holiday wearables, wearables of a special function (Water.org and Autism Awareness charity items), and the occasional weird and wacky item are perfectly fine for a cash purchase. My beef is that the majority of vanity clothing seems to be locked to an out-of-game purchase, pledge reward, or limited-time in-game quest. All the while tailors are only needed for light armor and the occasional throw pillow.

"But Jack! You can make rugs, and wall hangings, and prepare fish to be mounted on the wall!"

This is true, but none of that requires the Tailoring skill. I'm a GM in Textiles after being slaved to a hot loom during the Hometown decoration effort. My character does the loom shuttle animation in his sleep now. (Note: that was a joke, not a bug report) I believe that @Themo Lock has already reported how crafting GMs are not affecting non-GM crafters in the same discipline.

Ultimately, if R25 brings a bounty of clothing to which I'm currently not aware, or if we start seeing several clothing items enter into the game as recipes, then I apologize for my blunderbluster of concerned words. To that end, perhaps we can reach a compromise: Give tailors the ability to learn a recipe for an item of clothing on a random chance when salvaging. Flat % chance + additional % based on salvaging skill level. That could be a gold sink in the case of NPC clothing / armors, not factoring the "someone puts it on a wiki and the rest of the world learns it by discovery".

In the meantime, I wait patiently for what I hope is to come. Just know that all this is in my head each release.

4096 dyes. That's incredible, and I can't wait to see them in play. I just hope I have enough things upon which to use them at the end of the day.

 

Another day, another post about tailoring and clothing. Somebody is not happy they are not getting what they want, somebody is upset that things are not the way they should be. It never seems to just go away, it always seems to say the same thing, and it is really very sad because it is **ALL* true and agreeable!

There are new bodices on the add-on store.. Did you know that? Of course you did!! After all , every single female has one.

Really? I will tell you one female who REFUSED to purchase one for herself. I know I have it, but I did *not* buy it for myself nor will I wear it although I do have it.

Why? Here is why... I SUPPORT OUR TAILORS!

These items went directly to the add-on store. The tailors sit here picking their noses, waiting, waiting, waiting. *Booming voice is heard* Yay! New Clothes are coming .... waiting.. waiting.... And then comes the day, the new clothes are here, the tailors are .... Smashed to pieces and left to rust as the items hit.. the add-on store!

What? No, No, no, No, No!

These should not have ever gone on the add-on store. Yes I understand that the team needs money. These are *not* what should be it to make that money. These should have gone to the tailors who have been waiting *forever* 2 whole years of *forever* to get their hands on something, *anything*.

No, I will not wear the bodice, i will not wear anything except this elvin robe I wear, until it is craftable by a tailor!

Let me not even get started on the dyes, and the fact that we still have only 4 colours to purchase at what can only be said are "ridiculous" prices for dyes. Especially at this stage in the game.

We are in pre-alpha, being wiped, and we start with *nothing*. Then we are told "to look different from everyone else and buy dyes, you need to pay 750 gold EACH PIECE".. wait.. what?

There are in most cases 4-5 pieces of armor to make up a suit.. that is 750 each, thats a freaking boat load!!

And then... oooo and then!! You get that boat load of money, haul it to the dye vendor, spend it all, hard earned and wishing to rip your hair out, only to find out..

WHAT THE....?!?!?! "That item can not be dyed" ... NOOOOO!!!!

I *know* I am not alone in the amount of gold i have *Wasted* attempting to dye things so they did not look the same as other peoples, to find out "Screw you, this isn't magick!"

Nope... Nope... nope! This needs attention.

I had a different rant of words I wished to pour forth, but since I just used them to support Jack and the tailors of New Britannia.. my own rant shall be shelved.. but let it be known.. I have more rants held inside about crafting... and how truly truly disappointing it really is.

((I could write a book about it, maybe, I will.))

And, I am not sorry.

 

Agreed. Yes, I know things are being worked on and that this will all come in due time - and I hope portalarium doesnt think this is rabble rousing or ranting unnecessarily - I just wanted to make a thread to point this out and note just how discouraging and serious an issue it is for us right now.

Dyes will eventually come about, as an example. I know you guys are working on this right now. We know also that new clothing items take time to make.

So to be clear, although I agree with the points Jack and Amber make above to me the biggest and most clearly discouraging thing is the whole breadth of armor, clothing and such that is availible in every way you can imagine EXCEPT for crafting. It is especially discouraging due to the heavy crafting focus of the game.

 

I agree with the above points. In most games, optional clothing is very commonly a pay-to-own feature, and that's fine. It's just cosmetic.

However, in SotA, clothing ISN'T just cosmetic, because tailoring is supposedly a game mechanic system. There should be a multitude of clothing types available to craft, or that section of the game is null and void. I would also suggest that master tailors should be able to craft BETTER items than you can buy in the add-on store, including built in buffs and the like.

I hate to say it but it does indeed feel like we are heading towards the point where the add-on store will have a large negative impact on one of the most important aspects of the game, the player run economy.

 

Apart from the Lord British & Oracle cloaks there's no clothing in the add-on store that isn't merely cosmetic. The only other items that could be considered to have bonuses are the prosperity items.

 

I was wondering if there is or will be a craftable grim reaper mask. Hopefully soon I will have more time to be in game. Sooo busy in RL, even forgot the hangout today. Went to watch it and it cuts off just after 40 mins...

 

OT but they went down during the broadcast - maybe part 2 is still out there?

 

I sadly have to agree with the sentiments of this thread. Though I'm afraid it goes beyond tailoring. It seems with each release, more and more cool stuff get added to the add-on store, and occasionally dull versions of the same items make it into the game. <- Sad face.

We all understand Portalarium's need to continue to generate revenue, and they are extremely cautious about making sure add-on store items are not "Pay To Win", but I am afraid it has become "Pay to Have Fun". <- Double Sad Face

Personally I would love to see non-exclusive items added to the add-on store that are also available in-game. Let people who want to fast-track the acquisition of an item through real-world payments have the opportunity to purchase it on the store, but also make that exact item craftable in-game. Not a generic watered-down "alternate non-dyeable" version, but the same exact one.

And don't punish those who want to craft it in game by making it unreasonably expensive to do so material-wise.

That's my opinion... I could be wrong.

 

TY @Lum

 

All I know is that I brought this up a long time ago that items that are craftable in game should never be sold on the addon store and vice versa. That includes not selling "Ornate" versions of those craftable items in the addon store. It is important in order to ensure that the demand for good crafters remains strong. It also means that addon store items maintain their value as well.

I thought SotA would care about things like supply and demand, risk vs reward, but sadly those things remain missing.

 

Indeed agree with thread... gives the impression that this isn't a niche game thats being done for the pleasure of working a memorable Lord British title.

Feels like someone else is taking the reins and LB is taking the back seat and only plays. I can feel the professionalism but not the love.

And although my pledge is unconditional... I definately pledged for a LB game, not a game LB will play.

 

In this game of "it's a placeholder" transitioning to "it's representative content", I think we are just now seeing the snow ball leave the top of the hill to start an avalanche of craftable product.
If craftable sections of castle wall come into being in R25, I will see that as another sign that the snowball is bigger.
I know the frustration of waiting for things and some people are more focused on the craftable product than others, so it's greatly magnifies the anxiousness.
Can perhaps someone on the devs side present a high level overview of the strategy of types of craftable product vs what add on store would be? Example: are hats ever to be craftable?

 

But guys!!! They need to fund the game! You don't need a healthy selection of character customization options to play through the game!

...at least that is the response I've had on these forums every time I've tried to bring this up. So what changed?

 

Thats mostly the problem I think... sometimes to "feel the love" u just need a little communication. Heck I wouldn't mind if the placeholder items would be dyed orange just to tell us something else is coming... would be better than nothing.

 

Dear Ashlynn, don't feel bad for having feelings, you're not being beligerent that I know of so : peace !

What changed is that we realise that our game is more headed towards being a WoW Sims and now that we leave that to sink in we want to feel the love. In an Ultima collectors game this is CENTRAL to people having fun, creativity is the birth of fun for these types of games.

We need a line drawn in the sand.

 

Read the new StandUp Corner post.

 

For me, nothing has changed.

I still recognize and accept their need to fund the game. I have put this out because it has been a while since we have heard any developer talk on the direction of crafting. So like Stryker said above, I do believe that the snowball has began its descent but I would like to see someone address these concerns and give us some perspective about what the overarching plan is for crafting.

 

maybe lum will rickroll this thread too.