Does anyone else HATE the proposed card system??

In UO you could use any skill you wanted or cast any spell you wanted. That's the point. Try and picture this. There is a difference between a hit, a miss, and a spell fizzle, vs. not being able to use a skill because it isn't available. Or on the contrary that same skill comes up ten times in a row another time and you totally demolish your opponent.

There's a huge difference in how luck comes into play. The system they are proposing is a "card" based skill system that randomly allocates skills that are available to you at any given time. That's what they've told us. They said luck does come into play to make things interesting. Well I'm not interested in that type of system are you? I just wanted to clerify that's the point here, not spell fizzels and hit or miss with a weapon, but your skills not being available when you want them.

 

There are so many factors that play into this that I cannot answer your question. If it's implemented poorly, then on paper it's going to be horrible. Like if I'm a fire focused mage, but no fire spells are available to me because my "deck" strikes out, then yes, I agree with you. However, if it's choosing eight fire spells from a catalogue of ten to twenty, then I could possibly live with that because a truely good player will find a way to win with what they have available to them. at the end of the day, we know nothing for sure, and the only thing that is going to remedy that is a proper update similar to the ones they have done with crafting and housing. Everything else is speculation and not very constructive. "That guy told us this thing in passing like a month ago" really isn't going to convince me that the game is going to be horrible.

 

Now to go a little further... say you want to be a fire mage and you have 8 spells, but I want to be an arch-mage who specializes in only magic giving me 50 spells. I don't know what size of decks we can make but I'm thinking 50 spells would probably max it out. In that case even if you had 10 slots available you would only have a 1 in 5 chance of the spell you want to cast will even show up. May even be worse odds than that. So with this system in place nobody can master 50 spells.

(which brings up another issue... just how limited will mages be? having 8 spells doesn't sound like much of a mage to me. If somebody focuses only on mage skills and some armor skills they should be able to learn to cast a lot more than just 8 spells. If the skill system limits us to mastering only two or three mage skill trees that is a problem. That means there is no true mage in SotA.

 

You cant go pure mage, warriors will have auto attack with their weapons, what will mages have? Auto shuffle?

 

Grumpy you are absolutely correct. You cannot be a pure mage if the definition of pure mage is a magic user with multiple schools of magic. 30 to 50 spells is far too many for a deck system.

 

I don't need more than a few options at once. But I need them to be relevent and purposeful. I want some defence options, some cc options, and some attack options. I don't care that I have the best one all the time. Just don't mix these up or randomize the buttons.

 

Upfront I'd like to say that I'm not a big fan of card-based combat. Also, if the following has previously been suggested in this thread or another I apologize now for being repetitive.

With that said, if the dev team has the heart set on using a card based combat system, why not create a hybrid-model? Why not divide combat-based abilites between basic and advanced attacks. For example, your basic attack (weapon swing, shield block, archery shot, low-level magic missle, basic lay on hands healing spell) can be used at any time. However more advanced abilities (Tossing your sword in a lightsabre-esque fashion, imbuing your arrows with the flames of Akinosh, raining bolts of electrical death down upon your adversaries, or healing your entire party by surrounding them the the holy light of "insert random god's name here") could use the card based system. That way you avoid all casters using a select rotation of high-level spells. While it wont entirely eliminate the advantage veteran characters would have over new players, it would even the playing field enough, giving new toons a chance (elimination of spamming advanced techniques). Same token, veteran players will still have a slight advantage over lower level toons (veterans will have access to better abilities within their rotation).

Or you could simply use a modified version of the magic system from UO. Fizzing combined with blowback (an inexperienced mage burning himself when lobbing a fireball, or a summoned creature breaking the shackles of command and attacking both combatants). This would be more realistic then having a fighter forget how to slash with his sword for the duration of the combat turn.

 

Mages ought to be able to gain the spells by putting skills directly into the root of the tree instead of putting skill into each spell. Otherwise nobody can have 30 to 50 spells anyway. I think there were like 60 some spells in UO. that was a great number for a pure mage.

 

Yes, Yes I do hate the proposed card system. It takes away player control and builds bot like avatars. Give me the control to use what I want when I want.

 

Bot-like avatars? That makes no sense. A card system makes it much less likely that macros can be used, which is on the slippery slope towards botting.

Like I said, On paper it sounds like something none of us want, but I'm reserving my total condemnation until I see more concrete information.

 

64 mage spells
8 circles of 8

 

Does anyone know if the dev's have released any recent information regarding the combat system for SoTA?

 

If you have dev+ access this is a good resource megapost:

https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/f...mbat-magic-skills-advancement-mega-post.3564/

The skills are great actually. Things are always subject to change such as xxxx... which I and many others believe was the right move.

 

By bot-like, he meant all of the builds will just be the same wakling round playing themselves because of the card system. But that is just a whiplash excuse and comment based on the fear that PvP will be equalized by the card system.

I'm a pretty heavy PvP player, and I dont mind this new card system. I'm not sure where everyone's hate is coming from, I've read it all and I just see a lot of excuses without a lot of ideas.

 

Im all for a system like that, but not to fond of the deck system (if it goes into effect) I will give it a try, but to reel me in on that is going to be a challenge,{ PERSONALLY <---- Opinion,} I really hate any card based rpg, and im afraid it will hurt the fun of running up and clicking things till thier dead (being in control of skills you worked hard for and learned), I mean if you play for awhile and build skill why cant you use it?? why should it be based on the drawing of the cards or a set up of 2 or 3 cards to make a combo, if i already have skill in that? People say well its all chance, but its not if im more experienced than you or a monster in game, there would be in reality a very slim chance of failing something your expert at even in dice games you have plus's + based on skill, and i (another OPINION i think is shared by alot) whether fighting pve or pvp, is a system like that essentially takes away control over your character, and it doesnt matter if you have been building skill in anything over time. So as i stated this is my opinion, and i think alot of people share that same opinion even if one of you do not. Once again well just have to wait to find out how its gonna work officially.

 

The way these card based games usually work, and yes there are some out there already you can try. You have a basic attack which your primary attack anyway! Then it is supplimented by the draws which can include special attacks, spells, combo abilities, and many others. In short, the card system is not going to stop you from playing a mindless "diablo like" style where you just run up and left click to your heart's content.

In fact, with the draws, you can smash your keyboard even more while left clicking, perfect for diablo fans.

 

Also i think the Poll at the top should be narrowed down to like it or hate it only, with out the not sure whic seem like a scape goat to avoid answering either or, it would also give a more factual percent on wether its a good idea or not to go to a card system, also i agree with others in this forum, this particular question should be fully answered by Devs and such since combat is a big part in any game like this wether your pvp or not we all depend on it to accomplish whatever tasks may be at hand.

 

Ok i understand that it gives you extra dmg and stuff like that or protection, mindless bashing has never been a way ive played anything, there is moving around healing yourself or others and getting better advantage points as well as watching how AI works which is basic (does a certain number of things and then goes back to point one) I will give it a try if it turns out like one of those "Magic the gathering" games but i personally at this point in my life dont like that type of game and systems like this make me wonder wether i just threw my money in the trash!

 

I think the concern most people have is that, we see "card games" out there, but it just not our thing otherwise we would be playing those instead of these type games, and granted there are people out there that play both, there has been a big divide between types of rpg'rs becuase of the card games, most board games or D&D type games have gone from the paper and pen, and total control over our characters to characters being controlled by one game or another, I am a true RPG gamer, i hate card games, and alot of the games i used to play have gone to card system which took away my design on my character, and the swaying away from roll playing and generally making your character the way you want to (making your character the way the rules or designers,want you to) with that being said a perfect example is back in the day when you played RPGs like D&D, Rifts, Vampire, ect..(giving if you have played these before) We all had that one Dungeon Master that controlled the game told us where we had to go and what we could and couldnt do, and held our hands through the adventure, most of those type settings turned into either killing off other players in your own party, packing your stuff up and leaving all together, or just plain, Character death (DM: your only a 7th level fighter you probably dont want to go into that dragons lair and steal his treasure, PC: yes i do! i can handle it im a warrior!, DM: as you walk into the lair the great red dragon hears you raises up and singes you 2000 hp of damage, you are dead!) but at least that dead character got to play his character the way he wanted! eventhough that was his demise. i think that is what most are afraid of "the taking control over our own characters" against our will (without enchant spell)

 

I think my concern is that some of you think the SotA dev's will make you start combat by picking up a deck of ingame cards and stop to have turns playing those cards out... Not going to happen.