The way the deck system should work

The word "deck" does bring to mind the randomness of playing Uno or Slap Jack (and I have said SlapJack before in criticism of it), but it doesn't have to be that way.
In GuildWars (the first not #2) they used a system of aquiring skills where you'd get them from trainers, at first theough tutorials and missions, but after you learned the game you could just buy them.
The highest level skills were "captured" from bosses or named monsters.
This was basicly a card system (but not a random draw style) where when in a safe instanced town, like in SoTA, you could arange your set-up of 8 any way you want from your catalouge.

So how that works for those who never played
My main/favorite character who I worked on the most was a Necromancer (subclass I don't remember what he started with, but when I got the chance I changed it to Assasin) who I had collected a total of 52 cards for, there were a lot of cards/skills.
I only had two builds, so I only used 16 (15 actually) out of 52
First and main build was a Vampire set-up I created where he had nothing but life drain type skills.
Second was a Zombie Master, with one dammage spell, one to feed my zombies with my blood and one to heal myself by killing a minion, and the rest were to create flesh golems out of corpses.
One thing they both shared was one Assasin skill to make me run faster.

If these skills were shuffled and dealt randomly it would have been tough for the Zombie Master, but the Vampire would have done just fine.
Any class in GW could have handled having their "cards" shuffled and been perfectly playable, you'd just have to pick cards that would mesh.

Maybe they should have picked a different name, like "skill sets" or "ability pools", but the system theoreticly is sound...even if my spelling isn't.
Just having to wait so long with visions of the worst tossing around in your head is not healthy.

 

Yeah well airplanes should land on a runway too but sometimes they dont. I fail to see any strategy in hoping that your card procs into your deck. Sounds like it will be one deck for one situation so youll be retooling your deck constantly and if u go jack of all trades likely you will be horribly inefficient and suffer

 

As far as we know the "system" may not be detailed enough to worry about all that fancy stuff, you're assuming that it will be as detailed and varried as a Triple-A title such as Warcraft or EverQuest.
From what we've seen I don't believe this will be the case, friend.

You may just have Auto-Attack/Chop/Stab/Cut, or in the case with mages Auto-Attack/Fireball/Ice Ray/Fire Ray. If this is the case, it's not going to matter....not in the slightest.
We've seen a lot of stuff for and involving housing, and a fairly detailed mess of crafting. You know that fighting is the last and least part of this game, don't expect too much more than you saw in #4.

In anycase, like in most games, I'd think you'll just apply whatever skills you have to the situation at hand until you win or loose...like in every other game.

 

Well, at the very least, one won't be disappointed with that mindset.

 

Uh huh. I can see the tears falling now when you die to an NPC because you didn't have the right "card". With regard to combat I'm expecting WAY more than R4 and for you to insinuate otherwise is pure ignorance.

 

Really, friend, pure ignorance?

I have no expectations, the tears won't be mine.

 

Yes, really. Apparently you haven't been following the various PvP/Death/Loot/Combat/Magic/Affinity posts and videos. If you were aware of the many systems coming you wouldn't have made the statement "don't expect much more than you saw in #R4" in ignorance.

 

You don't have to agree with me, friend.
We'll just wait and see.

 

RPGs always have a random factor. Skills and attributes are still checked against random dice rolls behind the scenes. I see a lot of people worried about decks adding too much randomness to combat, but you still design your deck and it is filled with your trained skills. Your stats will still matter. But the order you use skills will likely be dynamic with the card system, which will prevent macros and rote/boring combat.

 

So far I've read that some of you would advocate a system where you double-click another player and enter some auto-attack state and you're alright with that?

Even in PvE? While fighting the Boss NPC....for minutes on end...simply waiting on the timed dice rolls and for the encounter to end...with limited or no input on your part other than how you laid out your deck???

Good lord that sounds ridiculously boring and non-fun. However, until we see how it gets implemented, no one really knows how it works yet or even if it will get scrapped completely.

 

From what we've seen of RG's demos, there is a skill/ability bar we're not seeing in game yet. The deck randomizes which skills are available at a moment, and you choose from the available ones.

This game will not be auto-combat. You'll need to react and make decisions in combat.

 

The worst games revolve heavily around randomly generated events in which the player has little control over. You are left praying to the RNG gods for good results and are all too often left standing by at the mercy of a dice roll. It takes the consistency out of a game, and makes it very difficult to devise a strategy that you are capable of relying on. Since SoTA will be rely heavily on RNG to generate your moves, it will almost certainly make for frustrating combat.

When you initiate combat what moves will be available? Must you first go up and land an auto attack to generate your first set of spells? That sounds like a pretty terrible way to initiate in combat, most strategy games have several opener moves that you would throw out first followed by other followups or counters. As the fight progresses the player with better luck will tend to win, and that's all you can expect about 50/50, sometimes you get good results other times poor results. No skill required in rng, just pure luck.

I can already in vision it now, and how horrible it will be. Oh look there's a guy who i want to stun or nuke... but wait... I wasn't dealt my cards yet... First let me go up to him and swing a few auto attacks while sitting back like a spectator watching my skill bar praying to the RNG gods for that powerful stun or nuke spell to appear. * only garbage my game generated "Poke", "Punch" and "Surrender". * not the spells i was hoping for... meanwhile the other guy generates "GODS WRATH OF UNENDING MISERY" out of the sky strikes a massive lighting bolt instantly dealing over 9000 damage, stunning you for seconds and deleting system 32. GG no re uninstall nothx

*edited for language - Koldar

 

I don't agree RNG is the root of all problems.

My experience with D20 type systems shows me that random numbers plus a modifier you work to improve via skill points works quite well.

*most* of the time you're good enough to do a task or succeed at a roll or whatever.

There is always that 5 or 10 percent chance something goes wrong, even for the best players.

Let's wait until we actually see it and play it before we jump to conclusions eh ?

 

@magicredux,

I like random events, as long as they aren't designed to be too punishing and insurmountable, or inescapable. That's how a lot of pen-and-paper D&D campaigns work; random encounters. That's how Darklands worked; it was a great game. Its also how a lot of other good games have worked. Everyone fondly remembers Oregon Trail from when they played as a kid.

And saying a card game that involves luck takes all the skill out of playing I'm sure is offensive to a lot of poker players. Part of strategy is being prepared for the unexpected, and knowing how to deal with it bad luck gracefully, and cutting your losses.

 

Well if your going to compare an online strategy RPG to poker then that makes it look even worse haha fail comparison?

 

Nah, its not going to involve nearly as much luck as poker, the point was just being that even in a game that's largely about luck, there's a lot of skill. And a game that has some elements of luck isn't going to be worse in that regard than a game largely about luck.

 

Well yeah I guess it's too soon to "jump" to conclusions, but some people are better at visualizing a concept than others. We are all one community but we all have our strengths.

I think there is good reason to be concerned about the current state of the combat system. For me there is no point to even test it the way it is currently designed. I can visualize it. That's what's frustrating for me. I have to wait till it gets tested then we have to move on to the next phase of fixing it. I can tell you now it needs to move on to the next phase already. I've already pictured it in my mind. I'm so confident that it will need to be changed that I'll say it now.

 

thanks Gracekain. That video is hysterical.......................

Hopefully our game has big decks *wink* *wink*

 

Poker is a game of skill, and part of that skill is in dealing with bad hands. In the long run, the better player always comes out on top.

That said, from what we know about the deck system it would be like playing poker if you got to choose what cards could be dealt to you. In that sense, some of the player skill would come from knowing to make your deck nothing but face-card spades, or whatever the SotA equivalent of that might be.

It's true, though, some occasionally a player might just have terrible draws and lose because of it. That would be a serious problem if every death resulted in a player losing every last scrap of clothing and every item on them, but the currently proposed ransom system makes it more like losing a pot in poker. In the long run the better players will come out ahead.