A simple solution to improve insta-PvP flagging

Right now a player not flagged PvP can attack (or heal a party member) a PvP flagged player, and after maybe a possible couple of attempts where it doesn't work (misses maybe, but that first swing should flag), get flagged as PvP and truly engage in PvP.

This is bad because:
1) The unflagged player can choose targets of opportunity with little to no risk, by waiting for a flagged player to be out of focus and nearly dead before attacking without warning.
2) It is not reliable for the person flagging, you have to wait for something to register which is not like throwing a switch and you're not exactly sure when it will register before you get flagged.

The simple solution:
A combat/noncombat glyph (can be cast even while stealthed) to forego the protection of the Oracle with a ~10 second casting time and an indication to nearby players that this spell is being cast. Adjustments that can be made to this include casting time and the indication to other players which can be more or less subtle - anywhere from a bright flash of red light to a low pulse and audio cue.

No more stupid "heal me to flag"
No more 0 risk attacks by the unflagged player
No more "hit me a few more times and maybe you'll get flagged"

1/29/2017 3:28:38 PM] Balec deCani: hit me
[1/29/2017 3:28:48 PM] Balec deCani: (have to target - shift click me)
[1/29/2017 3:28:53 PM] <Avatar> ah
[1/29/2017 3:29:07 PM] <Avatar>: hmm
[1/29/2017 3:29:20 PM] <Avatar>: not doing anything
[1/29/2017 3:29:25 PM] Balec deCani: try a few, its wonky
[1/29/2017 3:29:33 PM] <Avatar> attacks Balec deCani and hits, dealing 46 points of damage from Obsidian Arrow.
[1/29/2017 3:29:34 PM] <Avatar>: there we go

 

...

... Not bad.

Maybe not a glyph itself, but (without changing the functionality you suggest) I could see something similar to how one can switch decks in combat. Maybe a button like "Remove Protection" could show up when you target anyone that's already flagged for PvP.

I wouldn't mind a "Balec Fares de Cani is removing the protection of the Oracle" message popping up in chat either. So if I go in a tunnel, identify you as PvE, I'm not going to be surprised if you show up as a hostile a moment later.

 

@Chris @DarkStarr

The current method to ad-hoc flag PvP is ill conceived, unbalanced and broken, and does not encourage PvP. Could you please reconsider how this works.

• Ill conceived: Why should an avatar in a Party be able to flag PvP simply by healing a party member even when there is no enemy in sight, when a solo player has to "make the hike?" In the scene below I would have already been flagged PvP if I didn't have to make even the short walk to where I know there is an Oracle in Kingsport if I could have done it on the fly. I was planning to party with a PvE group later and just wasn't worth the effort to make two trips. In many cases it is not a short walk to an Oracle or the player does not know where there is one nearby - highly discouraging to flagging PvP.
• Unbalanced: My first strike could have been a stun and I could have finished this player off easily with no risk, taken the short walk (in this case) to the oracle to unflag and return and repeat - how does that encourage PvP or represent reward for risk?
• Broken: It's clumbsy and just doesn't work

I know the oracle heads are out there and owners are expecting a special feature.

I propose:
1) Oracle head statues should allow one to converse with the Oracle regarding everything except removing and restoring protection.
2) There be a craftable scroll that enables players to remove the Oracle protection in place of the current: maybe flag if you try to hit someone or flag if you heal a party member.


[2/23/2017 8:00:22 AM] You used Searing Ray but hit nothing!
[2/23/2017 8:00:25 AM] You used Obsidian Arrow but hit nothing!
[2/23/2017 8:00:26 AM] You used Stone Fist but hit nothing!
[2/23/2017 8:00:26 AM] You used Stone Fist but hit nothing!
[2/23/2017 8:00:27 AM] You used Knockdown but hit nothing!
[2/23/2017 8:00:34 AM] You used Stone Fist but hit nothing!
[2/23/2017 8:00:37 AM] You used Obsidian Arrow but hit nothing!
[2/23/2017 8:00:38 AM] You used Searing Ray but hit nothing!

 

Here's all the ways I know about how PvP targeting/flagging are broken and how to workaround until it gets fixed.

First, the confirmation check box in configs is confusingly labeled. It must be checked. Unchecking it just means "I never want to PvP ever without using the Oracle." There is no "I don't care I just want to PvP" option.

Flagging by combat: you can't attack party members so drop party, target the person with reticle, and insure there are absolutely no PvE targets in range of your spell from your perspective. Even squirrels.

Flagging by healing: you must make sure that the person is in your party, targeted with the reticle, and that are no legal targets (unflagged party members, pets) in sight for your heal to hit. It will only target the PvP player if there is absolutely nowhere else for the spell to go.

Until I figured this out, the system was immensely frustrating.

Also, it may have been fixed in the last couple of weeks, but the most annoying bug as a healer is that when I AM flagged, I cannot res a PvE player. I can heal them, but not res. I can also heal a PvP player with healing burst without needing to flag.

 

meh

I dont know why people have problems instant flagging.. i can do it very easily without these problems.

Honestly, we had a huge discussion about this exact issue back, and to kinda summarize..

- PVE'rs take the risk of being killed when in PVP zones. It only makes sense that people able to flag on demand makes sense/balances out PVP'ers who are in non - pvp zones. Most pvp'ers actually dont mind this mechanic, as the game SHOULD make someone who actually wants to fight PLAYERS, be in a PVP zone. Making this whole argument obsolite. So its hard to find sympathy for someone who is flagged, killing mobs (especially just for the bonuse exp )

- Flagging means you should be on your guard at all times. In my experiance i find being ABLE to flag on demand like that causes more flash fighting and fun currently in the game, then the entire cluster of PVP' zones combined. From the forum discussions, it seems people that hardly PVP in SOTA, are using this as another excuse to NOT pvp, yet make real comments on it (this isnt a personal attack just a summary IMO of other threads regarding this)


One good suggestion that we were talking about last time, was that flagging should reset your combat bar like it does when you JUST enter combat mode. This is kinda of a in between, best of both worlds solution. It eliminates a lot of advantage of *jumping a PVP er fully stacked * , yet keeping the ability for PVE'rs non flaggs to start flash fights.

One thing to remember, is that its a method to PREVENT griefing. A flagged person could run into a zone and kill steal all day, and you would more likely leave zone or mode and go somewhere else, then travel aLL the way to the oracle to flag, just to come back to kill him, then go all teh way back to unflag. I belive this type of griefing would be more common then the *unfairness of PVP'ers needing to always be ready *.

I am completly against removing the mechanic all together, i think it actually makes sense in a lot of ways.

Your idea is kinda on the right track, i feel there can be a better middle ground. Even a big flash of red, 10 sec might be over kill, as 10 sec means i can turn and walk away outa zone.

But if PVP'ers expect to be on the same par, they should be in PVP zone, not a PVE zone heh.

 

WTF are they doing in PvP zones in the first place?

Lets be honest with ourselves, "most PvPers" aren't playing SotA at all. If this rule isn't changed, I'm sure as hell not staying here long and I'll be playing a more competent PvP game.

That's not the issue! I don't care about dying from the hands of another player. The issue is that I, as a PvPer, can't preemptively attack someone before they attack me...

If I can't attack you, you shouldn't be able to attack me.

If you're telling the game, the entire system that you're not participating in PvP, then the system shouldn't allow you to engage in PvP at all. So WTF am I doing in a PvE zone? I did my part, I flagged so that the system can tell everyone that I'm willing to fight other PvP players. I didn't flag so that PvErs can suddenly decide to PvP whenever it's convenient to THEM.

If Portalarium can't comprehend this very basic principle, then I have no reason to believe that they're competent enough to provide a good PvP experience at all; even within the PvP specific zones.

So, no. I refuse to subject myself to PvP in a game with horrible rules of engagement.

Apparently the devs don't either and that's a scary and disappointing thought.