Bard and PvP: A discussion

Don't count on that ever getting implemented. I think it will be a lot harder to implement than they originally estimated.

 

It might be easier just to make bard instrument (2-handed weapons) you hold in your main hand with bonuses. That unused skill could just control the power of the bard instruments. 180 skill would give a +50% power(or whatever makes sense).Then they don't have to figure out how to nerf bard for players not holding an instrument.

They can just change the name of the unused skill to something that makes sense- (musical focus or something lol, i don't know) Giving up your weapon slots is a pretty big deal, so it would probably have to be pretty significant bonuses to make players want to use them. Cutting the casting times could also be part of it.

 

Bard is OP in PvP for duels only, where you can buff like crazy before the fight starts. However, if you bump into someone in the wild, it's not so OP due to several reasons:

1. Changing Decks: It’s very dangerous to switch from my Bard deck to my attack deck during PvP combat. I’ve died numerous times trying to make the switch.
2. Deck Space: Bard songs are powerful with 5-6 stacks, but including them in your combat bar is costly—it takes up at least 3 slots, plus mindlock.
3. Casting Drawbacks: The cast time for Bard songs is long, and you move slowly while casting.

What do I usually use in the wild?

• Archer PvP: I keep Savage Sonata on my attack deck.
• Melee PvP: I don't use Bard at all.

And what about those duels where you start only when you want? Savage, Attonal, slow, focus regen, life regen, etc.—these aren't realistic scenarios.

For PvE: I think Attonal Aria is too strong, in my opinion.

 

Would it be something like this?

The Legend of El Kabong: https://www.bing.com/videos/rivervi...C90193C266DE7A9D412FC90193C266DE7A9&FORM=VIRE

Thanks for reminding me of my favorite "bard" with a "2-handed weapon"!

 

Bard skill set did very little for mages in PvP, whilst giving an insane damage boost to melee and archers. Let alone other bonuses they were able to cast.

I think the main change that came from this was that both duels or PvP out in the wild became very quick ordeals. No longer was there tactics over a period of time but it felt like it became who was able to get the 6 stack skill off quicker than the other person would win the fight. Having a character in heavy armor (with heavy specialisation) and a shield fully buffed still able to be one shot with an arrow somewhat took the fun out of pvp for me. There was a time where fights were longer and factors like tactics, timing and some luck would decide the outcome rather than the quickest to buff and skill stack.
I tried for while to adapt to the changes for a long while and maybe the fault is my own not having the ability to do so. Either way the result was I no longer enjoyed the PvP so I stopped logging in.

I still miss what PvP was. It was probably only the same 10-20 of us fighting every weekend. I'd do it all again in a heartbeat.

Just in reply to this,

If you only switch decks and not gear the switch should be almost instant no?

 

Hello! You're right, it's quick if you have the exact same equipment—about 2-3 seconds. However, this still poses a problem for me because it's impractical to have a buff deck for each main deck. Even adding a shield to the buff deck significantly slows down the swap.

Regarding the old times when archers could one-shot everything, yes, that was incredibly frustrating. What’s worse: it remained that way for years. That significantly delayed patch has had a profound and lasting impact on the PvP scene.

 

True! Haha!

for me if the lute is a 2 handed weapon we just be able to use it as a weapon for bashing like in the movie Dungeons and Dragons Honor Among Thieves. ( no u in honor…. ).

 

Or perhaps something like this?




Also kinda thought about something like this: a blow-gun ranged weapon that can double as a flute.


Or perhaps: A multi-string bow that can be used as a harp?
A drum stick that can be used as a mace?

Getting back into to the thread's original topic: I started doing PVP a while ago, but have a lot to learn. I am basically a one mode avatar, doing only blades/earth. This method of fighting seems to have serious disadvantages to other PVP builds. Even with body slam and engage opponent, I am almost never fast enough do much damage unless I surprise attack. Also, Ranged attacks usually kill me before I have any chance at all. I think i can overcome some of those issues if I hone my PVP skill and develop more refined strategies, but it seems to me that I'd be at a signicant disadvantage even if I got my PVP abilities top notch. Anyhow, I think they should revisit PVP balance, including how the bard skills factor into PVP.

 

I don't wanna get too far off into the weeds on this cause it's not really on topic, but since it's been mentioned I'll comment on it briefly. SotA is absolutely pay to win. The ability for players to purchase Crowns of the Obsidian from the shop and then trade them in game, for in game currency which can buy them the best available gear and consumables on day one right after character creation is the very definition of pay to win. And it does happen a lot, especially with new players who feel the need to catch up to veterans of the game. And gear does make a massive difference in a players level of power. Putting xp into skills only starts paying higher dividends for the player than gear, when the amount of xp spent gets very high (and it still benefits from the gear of course). It's not directly pay to win since you can't simply buy the gear from the shop, but it's still very much pay to win. Just takes an additional step to get it done. Many games take this approach, allowing players to buy and sell premium currency in exchange for in game currency that is used to buy powerful items, then claim it's not pay to win cause the gear isn't in the shop. It's still pay to win, just with an additional step.

More on topic, before bard was released I was really hyped about it. I love playing support classes in mmo's, and that was what I thought it was going to be. The way it was implemented though didn't really interest me, and the fact it was so powerful that you were putting yourself at a disadvantage by simply not having it was off-putting to me. I looked at it more from the PVE side of things, since that's my primary interest in SotA. I leveled it a bit, and played around with it but never really got a taste for it. And after playing with people who were using it, I just felt dumb for not using it. I think anytime a skill line feels like you have to have it to be playing at your best, it's broken and could use some adjustment. Forcing players to have the instrument in their hands while using bard skills would be a huge improvement (and what I thought they were going to do before it came out), but even that won't fully solve the problem imo. I can't really comment too much on the PVP side of things, because while I do enjoy PVP in most games, I never found it particularly fun in SotA so I didn't do it much.

 

I don’t view SoTA as a play to win game. I was able to access all EP1 zones without extra payment. I was able to complete the main quests and solve all the challenges by myself. I played for two years solo with minimal human contact as I treated the game objectives as a single player game and this offered me great satisfaction. Every obstacle in the game required me to figure out methods to allow my character to advance without spending money. I found satisfaction by not asking players to assist me to kill high level mobs to unlock something I desired.

Years later, despite completing the game objectives, I wanted to continue to stay in the game and spend money on SoTA for vanity and a luxurious experience as the game does offer that experience, but it’s not a requirement to continue your existence in the game world.

I chose to buy a PoT, spend money on buildings, decorations, and create player dungeons. I’m also now a collector of player crafted gear for use and I want to make a museum of gear that represents my character. I found it interesting to install player created content in the game.

 

All the bard skills aren’t designed for a solo character if you force the bard to wield bard instruments in their hands, but it would be acceptable in the instrument slot. If you forced the bard to hold an instrument in their hands, then how do they solo? There’s only two skills for offense and it’s AOE. You’d have to add some single target, higher damage skills to make a solo bard viable. Your secondary specialization would be crippled as you can’t equip those needed items.

Chris mentioned in a stream that the Bard tree was intended as a supporting character for grouping and the design is as such. A Bard (spec) character offers amazing support, well done.