Do we get compensated for writing?

I guess since I need to be informed of the obvious I should bow out of the discussion. Thanks for standing up for Portalarium's interests.... maybe you should charge them for your services?

These are gray areas, and if you've ever dealt with lawyers and gray areas you'll know why I'm concerned. (You can probably strike "and gray areas")

I don't want to carry this discussion on forever. I just want to have fun. I don't think people get how pushing on the compensation issue could take away the fun, change it or limit it. Most don't need to care because they aren't contributing to the Tales at this point.

I will wait and see. As always I will keep my expectations low, but I've said what I need to and will go back to writing.

 

Sorry mate, I didn't mean any offense. I have no personal stake in this, as I have not submitted any work and do not plan to do (regardless of whether the work is paid or not), mostly because the writing being asked for isn't the kind I like to do. I understand your position and respect it. I'm just trying to be clear that these practices are indeed risky for Portalarium. It's admirable that people want to contribute to a project like this, and I love to see cooperative community dev efforts take off. They just get complicated when the effort is meant to produce a product that will be sold, and I don't want to see Portalarium get hammered by disgruntled volunteers because they were careless early on.

Still, businesses that implement these models of soliciting work need to be careful. The way you or I feel about this issue can't ever speak for everyone who will have work accepted for use in-game. The implications of these efforts go way beyond Portalarium's relationship with the people contributing, and even in that sense there are risks. What happens when someone files a copyright claim, arguing that they never gave Portalarium permission to use their work in that specific way and demand recompense?

The other complications can be difficult to anticipate, though, and are best addressed preemptively, by engaging in business practices in overly safe ways to reduce vulnerability to litigation. If another game developer, the makers of which choose, because they believe the law requires them to do, to produce all materials in-house, using paid employees, they might sue Portalarium for engaging in unfair and illegal business practices that give the company a competitive edge. There is precedent for claims of this type, as established by the Tony & Susan Alamo Foundation v. Secretary of Labor referencing the Federal Labor Standards Act. The issue in question in that case was whether employees of the non-profit organizationThe Tony and Susan Alamo Foundation should be paid wages. The thing is the employees didn't want to be paid because the Foundation provided them with housing and food in exchange for their work, but the Department of Labor argued that this practice constituted an unfair business advantage for the Foundation's shops and other commercial enterprises. The Supreme Court ruled in favor of the Department of Labor because the FLSA explicitly requires payment of wages. I don't know that any similar law applies to independent contracting in a case like this, but the spirit of that ruling is a threat here.

That example might seem like a ridiculous and litigious outlier. It is. But that's the world today's businesses live in.

 

Wow, that was a great description of the dilemma here Trenyc

I've worked for the US Gov, The State of Texas Gov and for many Politicians and non profit organizations, but am now retired to my academic studies in science. I can tell you from all that experience, the the US Gov employers can never figure out The US Department of Labor either, because there was always some strange loophole or requirements that would not make any sense to a common person, but is somehow needed to be there (?)... Anyway, once when I was doing some work for a non-profit children's relief organization, there came this other non-profit that wanted to help out. Yet once that organization took on new leadership, it's new leadership decided that all their help was worth enough to sue the organization I was involved in helping (I did promotional gigs for them), well... what transpired there after was that the (newly) griever non-profit ended up owning the non profit I was helping because of the court battle (they had more lawyers than we did)...

It's a real can of worms that no one wants to swallow, but that's what can happen when someone that may have seemed before as the Noble Loving All Volunteer Helper (in this case writer) when they later change their mind I think I remember hearing in that non-profit I helped out's hallways that this tactic was described as "A Bait and Pull", where just this type of situation could arise.

Thus that is why I am for the "art for art exchange" in the same way as Bartering requires to do when having a "no money exchange deal" having been offered.
Did you know that the Barter Kings and Billy the Exterminator were even popular here in Thailand?

It's True "hehe"
~Time Lord~

 

I don't understand the argument that they are on a limited budget and can't afford to pay people. Digital goods are not out of their pocket.

I sort of understand the argument that it's a way for amateurs to get noticed. But I also think they are still doing a favor by seeding the library so that it's not barren. They are saving Portalarium development time. Imagine what they pay per hour and you'll see what I'm talking about. Producing a book free, instead of having to pay Portalarium for the "privilege" of writing a book, does not appear balanced in my opinion.

Players having to pay Portalarium for a book, handing over all copyright claims, also has the ring of trouble to me.

 

As far as I can tell, they aren't asking players to hand over any copyright, which is more like a Ding Dong the Witch is Coming to Eat Your Children kind of sound, as they go.

 

Writing for free, in which it's handed over for use in a copyrighted game, holds that implication. One that could stand up to legal scrutiny.

I think Portalariim had the best of intent, to allow volunteers to contribute amd make their mark. I just think they need to be far more clear, amd also consider some of these arguments.

 

Any original content you post on these forums becomes property of poratlarium (per the terms of service). Don't post anything on any website you don't want the owner to have full rights to. It's pretty standard thing out there people frequently forget.

 

Where does it say that? https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/forum/index.php?help/terms

Submitting writing for a specific purpose retains the scope of the purpose. That's fine for using the writing in the agreed upon way. Part of the trouble, though, is that the exact details of the agreement are implied, not explicitly stated, and interpretation of that implication can be stretched enough to substantiate a claim. That claim doesn't necessarily have to be exactly in line with law to hurt Portalarium, either. That's scary territory that few people really understand too terribly well, and unfortunately a good lot of the people who do understand are mainly out to make themselves money by suing people who don't.

 

Also, terms and conditions are not enforceable if a user never actually agrees to them. This article on the Forbes website explains this issue quite well: http://www.forbes.com/sites/oliverherzfeld/2013/01/22/are-website-terms-of-use-enforceable/

 

I have locked this thread so that I can review all of the details. Thank you all for your input.

 

Moving forward, player written fiction will be introduced into the game world through the in-game book publishing system (which will be available in a future release) or as the result of community driven contests.