Is the travel system in this game and all the instancing temporary?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by gwartham, Aug 22, 2014.

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  1. Chris

    Chris Tech Lord Moderator Ambassador SOTA Developer

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    @gwartham, I drive a 10 year old car that cost $28k new and has 118k miles on it and my wife drives an 8 year old Honda Element. I think the nicest car anyone at the office drives is a probably a 7 or 8 year old BMW SUV. No one at Portalarium is getting anywhere near industry average salary. Anyone working on Shroud is doing it for the love and the hope that they can be part of something awesome. Also, the only company parties paid for by Portalarium have been a trip to see the Hobbit last year and a couple of BBQ's at Richard's place which was also attended by 20+ backers.

    As for why we don't have a single, large open world, there are a number of reasons. I think the topic is too large for me to fully cover here but I will try to include a discussion of the issues in my length R9 post mortem. I think the short version goes something like this:
    • Faster content development. All those games mentioned above took 3+ years to get live.
    • Better scaling. Do you like having the world split into shards so that single seamless world can handle any number of people? Sharding sucks...
    • Easier to add content. Because of the abstraction of the world map and the scenes we can add new content on the fly with little effort. This is huge for a game letting people as early as we have.
    • Cheaper servers. Instances vs seamless results in MUCH cheaper server costs so we don't have to require a subscription.
    • Player matching. Right now there aren't enough people in game to make this meaningful but later, we can match people to players with similar qualities and hopefully result in a better experience.
     
  2. redfish

    redfish Avatar

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    Part three is out in December.
     
  3. Chris

    Chris Tech Lord Moderator Ambassador SOTA Developer

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    Yep, I'm pumped and yes, that will be our next extravagant company party! :)
     
  4. gwartham

    gwartham Avatar

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    Sorry Chris if that offended, it wasn't my intention, it is a valid concern I and many others have on the concept of crowdsourcing in general. Portalarium is at the vanguard along with several other small companies of redefining the game industry by going directly to its fans to fund projects. As I said before I support it, because I don't think a game like SotA, or say Pathfinder Online, would ever get the funding it needed for the big guys. On my first experiences of the game arent what I was expecting, and it may turn out I do not like the game one Iota(doubtful), but I would still fund it, because a game from your crew deserves to see the light of day.

    Prime example, does Portalarium, offer to us, the funders of the project, a annual breakdown? As a private company Portalarium, or any other crowdsourced game is not required to provide it, because "technically" we are donating funds to you/buying a product.

    And the question still has not been answered. If this game hypothetically was to all the sudden get a major influx of crowdsourcing, say in the next 3 months it got another 10 mil, even tho the primary funding and some of the stretch funding has been completed, what would happen with that 10 million?

    Where would it go? What would it be used for? Would it cause I a rethinking of design? Would you shut off crowdsourcing, as you have enough funds to finance the goals set out?

    Its all hypothetical, but that doesn't make the questions invalid ones to ask, especially when looking down the road at the future of crowdsourcing.

    And don't feel bad Chris at all, I left the corporate techie world, and all my shiny new cars, to drive around a 15 year old SUV, but now I am doing something I love, and that's far better for the soul then any shiny new car or a corporate wage can give ya, I am sure you would agree :)


    On another side tangent, me and some friends were talking/fantasizing about maybe Richard should start a kick starter to buy the Origin IP rights back from EA lol.
     
  5. gwartham

    gwartham Avatar

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    Also, will you have the ability to make the "instances" larger?

    My guess is yes because the city/town instances are quite larger then the pvp/random roaming instances.

    That will go a LONG way to alleviating my issues with the game.
     
  6. digriz

    digriz Avatar

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    Dont forget to pre-order the extended 2nd movie of the hobbit.
     
  7. Sold and gone

    Sold and gone Avatar

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    Sir, If I lived close I would definitely buy you a beer! *cheers*
     
  8. Dermott

    Dermott Avatar

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    The dual-scale hex-scene system works well for me. The single scale large world is a bit more "connected" compared to the SotA style, but with larger worlds comes much more wasted, empty space in between Points of Interest.

    With the current system, they can make meaningful areas even for "generic" areas as well as continue to modify and replace areas that aren't up to par. They can also add in events to scenes after the game is released creating a more dynamic world. With a single-scale inclusive world, you have to patch the entire map to make these changes. With SotA's system, it's a much smaller patch.

    So basically, it can give more dynamic, meaningful areas to the world without having huge patches to do it.

    Hopefully in time, the world gets fleshed out enough scene-wise so that we don;t have the same "generic" scene in most hexes on the map.
     
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  9. Chris

    Chris Tech Lord Moderator Ambassador SOTA Developer

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    Gwartham, step one is get episode 1 out and make it hella fun and compelling. Once we get a bit closer to that we can start thinking about what to do to make episode 2 as awesome as humanly possible based on the level of success of episode 1. Porsche's for everyone is like step 17 or so. :)

    Also, for anyone who wants to buy me a beer in person, I will be at PAX in Seattle next weekend running the booth with two other Portaloons! We'll be in the Plantronix booth showing off the game. Just PM me if you want to meet up and talk shop after the show.
     
  10. Chris

    Chris Tech Lord Moderator Ambassador SOTA Developer

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    Oh, and on the dual scale map, we'll put in some effort soon to make the transitions faster. We haven't been prioritizing that but I think the new giant city made us change our minds on when to work on speeding up loads. :)
     
  11. rune_74

    rune_74 Avatar

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    Man, I wish I was home....I'm not back from this deployment for another month or so...Seattle is not far from Victoria BC....

    If you ever get up to Victoria Chris let me know...I will buy you that beer.

    PS: I note you used KM's to talk about your car...are you canadian?
     
  12. gwartham

    gwartham Avatar

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    Damned PaX........

    Tickets to that damn thing always sell out within a day so I never get a chance to go heh.
     
  13. Sir Cabirus

    Sir Cabirus Avatar

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    This are very good news, thank you Chris :)
     
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  14. Lord_Darkmoon

    Lord_Darkmoon Avatar

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    Still hoping for my zooming out with fog/clouds obscuring the view while loading idea to happen ;)
     
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  15. Vallo Frostbane

    Vallo Frostbane Avatar

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    TBH the last couple of years all the open world MMOs I played didn't have that either. Having a seamless open world doesn't mean either of the things you want to experience are going to happen.
    I don't like the way the hexes are designed right now. The invisible wall forests are terrible from a immersion point of view... but I can imagine exploring all the hexes in New Britannia is great fun,
    and even if not every hex is different in the first episode, I'd prefer well designed hexes over a dull open world which is empty most of the time. I have faith that they redesign those hex borders to feel less
    artificial.
     
  16. TemplarAssassin

    TemplarAssassin Avatar

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    How is this a good thing?
    To what extent do we take the diversity of players out of the game to replace it with "matching people with similar qualities"?

    Why would I want to meet people who are exactly like me? Why wouldnt I want to meet ALL kinds of people?
    Is there gonna be an option to be matched RANDOMLY?
    Please, answer, Chris.
    Thanks.
     
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  17. Zyco

    Zyco Avatar

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    The map travel doesn't bug me as much as others I guess, what I would like to see is the random events that pop up when you are traveling to have some challenge to them or a chance at some crafting components or something along those lines.

    Like a group of bandits with a leader try to take you out and if you stop them there is a chance of some chest loot or a big gold pile they were hording around. Or you find a strange Ore deposit that yields an larger than normal amount of resources.
     
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  18. Logain

    Logain Avatar

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    Please pardon my persitence and possible ignorance, but I simply hope that you're going to read this and possibly explain a point or three in that posting to come (I really like your post release postings ;) ).

    I'm not sure if we're even talking about the same things here, because some of this sounds perfectly possible (considering ~SOME~ overhead!) with a 'hybrid' solution as offered through Unity itself (according to their API description). Through dynamically loading and unloading the scenes with LoadLevelAdditiveAsync you'd still have a similar scaling. Everything would still be divided into 'hexes' (scenes) for Unity together with the players, you'd still have player matching and the ability to add content on the fly, because the 'seamless' vision is simply a visual effect for the player. Nothing more, nothing less. You'd just have to handle the transition, but you are doing that right now with the dual scale map as well with a single expecption, you only have one scene at a time, where you might end up having four at most with a 'seamless' attempt. On the other hand, you could drastically decrease the scene size and thus end up with barely more than what you already have. All you are saving is the graphical dependency.
    Could you help me understand where I am underestimating the required effort?
     
  19. Chris

    Chris Tech Lord Moderator Ambassador SOTA Developer

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    Not sure how you're seeing this as a bad thing. This will only be used when there are multiple instances of the scene. An example of this is if you enter into scene and there are multiple instances of it and you have flagged yourself as a role player, we can try and match you with the scene with more role players. If you are enter an adventure scene and are level 20, we'll try and sort you into scenes with more people near your level.

    We haven't nailed down the details on exactly how we'll use it but it is another tool that is made possible by the dual scale map which is why I called it out.
     
  20. Chris

    Chris Tech Lord Moderator Ambassador SOTA Developer

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    The sharding I'm talking about is the splitting up of servers in a fairly permanent way.

    The adding content I'm talking about is not at run time but as new content gets developed. You went into a hex last week and it was a simple woods hex. This week we completed a sweet new bandit camp scene. If we were doing a seamless world, we would not have the same level of freedom to completely change up content on the fly.

    If you're suggesting that LoadLevelAdditiveAsync is some magic bullet that would turn a scene based game into seamless world, then you're not understanding the problem. The tech to load stuff in the back ground is not the main problem, we do that already for loading houses and decorations in towns (though we wrote our own since LoadLevelAdditiveAsync is not really practical for any game larger than a 2D phone game). The main problem is the content creation and how much it is complicated by making the world one big seamless space.
     
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