My ideas of PvP, and bringing RISK back into the game!

Some things, like floaty player names, if toggled on would have to be suppressed.

The problem is, in fantasy literature, there are skills at hiding that could seem almost magical. Hobbits, for example, are said to have an almost magical ability to travel silently and unseen by other species in Middle Earth, and hobbits were distinctly not magic users. Instead, Tolkien explained that by their closer affinity with nature.

So how do you simulate that in a computer game? It has to involve a degree of invisibility, although it's not invisibility in fact, but if in practice you aren't supposed to be able to see a hiding stealthed character because they are exceptionally skilled at hiding, the only way to simulate that is to not display that character.

 

Or displayed part of a character, not invisibility but a level of translucency. Or adaptive camouflage clothing. The problem I see with invisibility is its all or nothing nature. Instead of making a skill to counter a skill, make a sharp eye counter a craftable.

Edit to add an aside to floaty names. To display names or not has been discussed and seems to be heading in the direction of a toggle. I'm loath to suggest adding another checkbox but if I choose not to see names then neither should my name appear to others.

 

The problem with translucency or adaptive camouflage clothing is that the human eye is very good at picking out detail, and if you want to simulate something that is invisible, the worst way possible is by using translucency or some similar effect, which practically screams "LOOK AT ME".

I used to watch one of my sons play Battlefield 1942 when he was in high school, and he used to play the engineer class, which was equipped with a single shot carbine, and he was more effective with that weapon that I was with a scoped sniper rifle. He was able to spot a character all the way across the map, snap his rifle up and do a head shot on a character that I couldn't even see. I asked him what he was looking for to be able to make a shot like that, and he'd reply that he was able to spot a single pixel or two toggle against the terrain background, and that was his cue that a player was at that pixel. The way the targeting system worked at that range was that if you targeted the precise pixel, the system would treat that as a max damage shot, which was a head shot instantaneous kill. He had many more hours in the day to perfect being able to spot that tiny anomaly, so even when I knew what he was looking for, I was never able to duplicate it.

Now for gamers who can respond to the change in a single pixel, how stealthy is a large translucent visual effect going to be? If you want to simulate not being able to see a character who is well hidden in a computer game, than you are forced to not display the character in any way.

This can be overcome by skills that will break the effect, such as an active or passive 'detect hidden' spell or skill such as was present in UO. When the skill/spell succeeds, then you can see the other individual, but not before. Tracking was also useful against hidden/invisible characters, but that would only give you a direction, not a range. Still, just knowing a stealther was present was very useful.

 

But this is my point. A careful and practiced eye SHOULD be able to spot someone hiding but the average player merrily jaunting along would never notice.

 

No hiding, no recall, you might as well take running out of the game too.
Some of us only live through a fight by getting away.
Why do we keep thinking of new ways to have no way of escape?

 

Well, ok then, if you limit your invisibility effect to a single pixel changing shade, maybe. Then only the really careful and practiced eye will be able to detect it. Otherwise, it would be trivial for anyone to see, so why waste skill points on a hiding skill that anyone can see through?

 

First, I propose that it not be a skill but rather a craftable, as in camouflage clothing. Second, I think you are underestimating the effort and overestimating the player's attention. I don't think that most players will step-look-step-look-step their way through the woods.

Why should hiding be so effective that even staring at a player will not reveal them? Why even call it hiding when in fact it is invisibility, pure and simple? Sure, you can wind up designing a handful of skills related to invisibility, finding and revealing with little real effort (or real skill) on the part of a hider or seeker. My proposal attempts to engage crafting, player skill and a closer adherence to realism.

 

I for one will practice hiding above all other skills.
The second would be recall or a least a short jump out of danger.
Even though I like being open for attack does not mean I want to fight my way through a battle.
Please give us some skills to escape with.
And yes by me investing my skill points into hiding means I can't do something else.
If the PK's want to attack people then they are going to want attack skills, giving them run away skills by default don't seem right.

 

PvPers in UO frequently would step look through the woods looking for hider. Use tracking skill, get a direction, walk a couple of steps and use detect hidden. Use tracking skill, get a slightly different directions, walk couple of steps in that direction and use detect hidden again. Just because YOU haven't done so doesn't mean that isn't actually a common tactic in applicable games.

But again, the reason it has to be de facto invisibility in games again leads back to the inability for games to effectively simulate a person skilled at hiding in a role playing game, a person who's skill is above the ordinary, or is even extraordinary, as in my example of Hobbits. It is a limitation of the medium.

 

Yes Owain. You've just described the same actions using different methods. I suggest step-look-step. You suggest step-skill-step.

 

No matter how you 'look', the limitations of the simulation on a computer screen is inadequate to what you have in mind. That is the problem, not one of skills vs just looking. The medium will not support what you want it to support.

 

I agree with your idea here. Short of magical invisibility, looking right at someone, however good they are at sneaking, should give you the possibility to see them, if you are paying attention. Sneaking in real life has to do with not making sound, keeping behind things when possible, keeping out of peoples eyesight, or at night, keep to the darkest shadows in dark clothes (Played hiding games with my friends when I was a teenager, and dark clothing in the woods on a winters night does make you nigh invisible). To make this possible, SotA needs to have realistic lighting, so that total darkness is not something you can see through, as most games make it today. That would even make torches and lanterns have some use.

 

When your being chased by a dragon or pk or whatever your not looking to put some leaves around you and try to act like a tree.
Good luck with that.
You need to go invisible and you need to go invisible quick.
Again if you remove going invisible and you remove recall then how are we supposed to get away?

 

I've created a new thread to continue this discussion of hiding.
https://shroudoftheavatar.com/forum/index.php?threads/hiding-versus-invisibility.2844/