SOTA's Target Audience is too broad.

Crafting is a LOT simpler than combat mechanics.. the recipe design just makes it look like more than it currently is.

What people should realize about single player is.. in that working on multiplayer you're also working on single player at the same time. The primary difference is we're not seeing the main story. All the ground work is the same. Quests, combat, crafting etc etc.. Devs have said before there isn't a lot of value in testing offline play because they can't collect that data. But we're doing all the same stuff online..

At this point it isn't the design that's lacking so much as implementation.

 

We disagree. I think you're completely and totally wrong.

The crafting system (by design) will have mini-games that make it more challenging and interesting. Food has meaning. There's regional crafting, and finding ore in the northern mountains (for example) will have a different impact on crafting than using ore from the southern mountains. In addition, the types of tools you use, what they were crafted out of, will impact how your food (at least) tastes and what kind of potency it has. Finally, some commodities will be unavailable in certain areas, making it necessary to travel outside of your immediate area (or at least hire someone else to do it for you) to get new and different types of materials. The crafting system is integrated with the economy, and will require a bit of "know how" to perform it well. It positively impacts roleplaying.

Almost none of this is implemented yet.

Where as the combat system (by design) is simply put a DPS war. Meaning two people attempt to out Damage Per Second each other to determine who wins. There's NOTHING more to it than that. It doesn't integrate into the economy well, it doesn't challenge people in any way other than spamming whatever does the most DPS while building whatever resists the most DPS. It also negatively impacts roleplaying.

To say otherwise is one of three things....You're either ignorant of the design. You're purposefully trolling the thread. Or you're arguing for the sake of arguing.

 

What else is new?

I never said the crafting system was finished did I? But you weren't talking about finished systems.. but systems in their current state.

Food is something different entirely. Saying food has meaning is like saying weapons have meaning. Once they're finished it's no longer crafting and it's not really food until it gets to that point and give me some credit. I'm more than well aware of the details.

Ok now first you're saying crafting is "farther along" and rattle off a list of unimplemented features.. then talk about combat like it's finished.. which it's not.

Also, take a look at your very first comment.. and compare to the last comment. You don't get tell someone you think they're "completely wrong" and then accuse of them ignorance, trolling or arguing for the sake of it. At least not if you want to be taken seriously. "You're wrong" is an open invitation for a rebuttal.

 

What wasn't I talking about?

 

um.. aren't you just confirming my point that we aren't talking about finished systems?

 

No. I wasn't.

I'm talking about designs. I'm not talking about "systems in their current state" as you put it.

 

So.. we aren't talking about finished systems then?

Except you do talk about PvP as if it were finished. Your choice of words. Yeah you say "(by design)" but don't see the finished design in action. You say it doesn't integrate well with the economy.. yet there is no economy now to integrate with. How do you know unless you have both complete systems in play? You claim it's negatively impacting RP.. how is that exactly? Since it's not a complete system and not a lot of people are RPing regularly right now. You can't know that unless it was a complete system in play.. interacting with other systems. Which it is not.

You are judging what your perception of the design will do.. and then talking about it like its already in. It doesn't integrate well with the economy.. it IS negatively impacting RP (present tense). As if this is what's going on right now..

 

I said the "known" design. I pay attention to what the devs say, I read and watch everything I can. I play all the releases.

Where we're headed in PVP is not comparable to where we are headed in housing and crafting. If the devs wanted to give more information that would make that untrue, I'd be happy to hear it. But as it stands, the design for pvp and combat is lacking in ways that housing and crafting are not. Namely, the negative impact to RP, and the over simplification of the system (combat and pvp). Both of which speak directly to the OP, that SOTA is designed for too broad an audience.

 

To the Two people who have been making statements about a (finished/not finished) pvp and Combat.
Since at least one of you have forgotten the this is Still Pre Alpha! Nothing is Finished!!
We need to remember, everything can and will change!
This game is NOT ready for the General Public.
Nor is anything ready for spit and polish.
Yes feedback is needed.
And the statement, (the Audience is too broad), is not a statement i agree with.
You MUST have a Large/Broad audience to get feedback.
I do not like the deck system, therefore i play with a Static Deck.

 

Yeah.. you did say "known design".. that doesn't change that you still make it sound like you're judging a completely implemented system when you state things as fact in the present tense.. ie "it doesn't integrate well with the economy".. and the economy isn't even in.

What negative impact to RP? You're going to have to explain that one.

 

I'm pretty sure I said that I completely understand it's in pre-alpha throughout the thread, in the OP, in my last few posts.

Unfortunately, just saying "it's pre-alpha" doesn't mean you have a good design. That's the point. The feedback is, the design for pvp and combat is stinky. (as well as some other areas of the game that don't fit well together and are too broadly based)

That's a very good point. I agree, you need and want a broad audience for both testing and feedback. But that does't mean that if you're making an RPG that you design your combat more like an FPS so you can get an audience that will not be interested in RP, and also not like your version of FPS combat. That's not a winning formula.

What you do is make an RPG for people that like RPG's. Your combat system within that framework should be catering to people that like RPG's first, and not people that don't care about roleplaying. Seriously, who cares about the people that don't like roleplaying? SOTA shouldn't, that's not supposed to be the game they're making. That's not supposed to be the game they designed.

I'm not saying this because it's my preference, I'm saying this because in the FAQ's when you ask was SOTA is, it says it's a Roleplaying Game. Which makes what I'm saying a fact (or at the very least a FAQ).

 

Point of disagreement: Current combat is not like a FPS. Never seen a FPS with such a variety of skill sets, magic or lacking ammo packs laying around every other corner. Besides.. by definition.. First Person requires a first person view.

The only thing FPS-like is the non-RPer's approach to combat.

 

I consider the Baron a friend, but sometimes I wonder if his avatar means "Talk to the hand"

 

Ok, well the devs know what I'm talking about - I'm sure.

Here's a great example though....



Is this faster? Sure.
Is this not exactly the same? Yes.
Is this using a different engine? Sure.
Does it have a bazillion combos? Yes.
Does it have "ammo" laying around on the ground? No.
Is Lichdom Battlemage an FPS? Yes.
Can players go into first person view and play SOTA? Yes.

I'm not comparing Lichdom Battlemage combat to SOTA. I'm just showing you an example of an FPS (one of many) that discredits your semantics.

 

Actually it's the hand of truth. I speak it.

People that don't think about the truth, don't want to hear the truth, or don't know the truth, say things like "It's only pre-alpha" as if that's somehow an answer to design problems. Really, if you think about it, that's exactly why we should be talking about all of this...since it's pre-alpha we still have an opportunity to change it. The devs understand this, which is why the forums are a place that people can give honest feedback.

 

There's a difference between skills and combos. Speed & game engine are irrelevant to the point. Items to pick up are too really. I still see nothing of FPS in SotA which was the point.. not whether or not every FPS was the same.

And I'm still waiting to hear how current PvP negatively impacts RP.

 

We had the discussion about RP impact about 5 pages ago. Feel free to go back and read that.

 

A lot of people say "it's pre-alpha" because of the impression they give when they give their feedback.. such as sounding like they're judging a complete game or that they don't understand it's pre-alpha. Or to just remind someone that it's not finished and for some things it's a little early to declare something as a failure.

I've never heard anyone claim it's an answer to anything. Rather it's too soon to tell. Give it a little time to see a more complete picture and then get all over it. Some things are more predictable than others. While other things have too many unknown variables to know for sure.

 

Truth vs Perception: Which is more important — the truth of reality, or what is perceived to be reality? Looked at at another way, the questions could also be seen as between “absolute truth” and “relative truth” respectively.

 

I don't recall anything definitive coming out of that.

Went back.. re-read.. 6-4 pages ago.. nothing there.