Stealing/Theft/Hiding/Stealth

I believe that call was made by Richard during Kickstarter. It is a core tenet of this game that PvP be consensual.

 

That ship has sailed. You're not going to get a 100% non-consensual pvp game worth any amount of your time because it drives off customers that would otherwise be happy to pay you money for your product.

You need to start thinking about how you integrate what you want with what is possible.

 

OK, so we all consent to pvp will there still be a blue/red system like in UO? or will it just be very bland system like everyones blue all the time attacking each other for no reason just becuase we flagg pvp and i can loot u. if thats the case then i'll just feel like a murderer with no penalties and maybe thats not the type of pvp'er i wanna be. maybe i want to fight the bad guys.

 

Beyond the fact that there will be a separation between PvP and non-PvP population, there are currently no hard-set rules.

There have been plenty of threads regarding criminality within the PvP environment, and how to judge right from wrong.

Feel free to add your opinion to the mix.

 

The fact it will be by consent only is literally one of the very few things we know about PvP. Unless something new was decided while I was away from the forums (and wasn't divulged in the front page and MMO sites), we don't yet know if there will be thieving, player looting, how exactly "flagged" players will meet, how will players "flag" or "unflag" themselves, if there will be a crime and punishment system (or how it might work), etc.

We do also know that the devs want to use the instancing the game will have in order to make the game appear to be an open PvP one for flagged players. In other words, what the devs want is that, as long as you are anywhere PvP is possible, if you are flagged for PvP you will only see other players also flagged for PvP, so you will be able to attack anyone you can see. That, though, was just a declaration of intent, not a hard commitment.

 

You can consent to the risk of being stolen from, just like you can consent to being murdered, as part of open PvP.

 

Exactly. Now, a disguise kit can help you evade detection, but when you have been CAUGHT, and the guards are holding you in a cell while I list off the seven times *I* personally caught you stealing from me, and there's a line out the door behind me, I just don't think you're gonna get off light.

Since, last I heard, Portalarium intends us to have only one toon in SotA, there will be no logging, and you will care about that rep.

 

Yea. Toons will cost about 60 bucks a peice at the start. something like that. Mine particularly costs WAY more... so ill just be good with that one. But as the game goes on it should eventually drop in price then people will start having multiple toons. Its still probly gonna be pretty effective in limiting the number of toons one person creates though.

 

And if your thief toon gets some form of permanent execution for being caught stealing, will it be worth it to you to buy another?

 

Pickpockets are exactly that, they steal little things you may have in your pocket/coin purse....some money, jewels, and/or jewelery...they may snag a small knife if lucky. Not looting armor, battle axes and such from someones secured packs. That would be a grab-and-run type thing because it would be immediately noticed. And in a game filled with armed combatants I wouldnt give chase, Id just notch an arrow and lodge it squarely in your back since you have your arms full of my gear (you wouldnt have time to pack it away and draw your own weapons to defend yourself). Then Id walk over and recover my things, and loot your corpse. But that wouldnt be fun for you because your success rate would be abissmal and your death rate astronomical.

If they put in the ability to have fake coin purses (say spell trapped) and other counter measures to prevent you from stealing anything of value but only getting your own death in a bag, everyone would do that, again negating your ability to steal.

Then they up the skills to help you counter the counter measures and things flip again....etc, etc

The flip side is what Ive seen in many games, from the early MUDDs on, that have "pickpockets", and that is Im sitting there sorting through my pack watching items disappear. If I attack you (in towns near guards, like at the bank where these things commonly happened) to end the rampant looting, I get killed by the guards. This is not fun for me, since I lose my items and get killed.

The point is, the skill is either only entertaining for the pickpocket and highly frustrating for the victim, or they put in counter measures and the frustation becomes the pickpockets' and the skills usually become useless. Not to mention the fact that stealing anything from a conscious victim that is bigger than a palm sized object is, as many have said on other topics, "immersion breaking".

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Breaking into someones home is even worse....it usually occurs when you arent even online to defend your belonging (as a prior service Marine this was a problem when sent on deployment for weeks/months at a time unable to play to return to an empty residence). Ive not experienced a lot of this in modern MMO type games, but again, Ive played a good number of MUDDs.

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Hiding and stealth are fine with me, but without some sort of magical means you shouldnt become completely invisible, especially in an open field. And thats only when "hiding", moving stealthy, even with magical assistance shouldnt render you completely undetectable to someone who is simply paying attention. You would need to use terrain and shadows, and since this is a 3D game, awareness of your target's gaze to sneak up on someone. Standing in someones home in the middle of a well lit room waiting for them to set something where you can grab it shouldnt even be an option. And given my understanding of housing permissions (minimal as that understanding is) its not.