The PvP Thread

It is a matter a reward or penalty. Making the reward itself a penalty for choosing to not accept the challenge will only go over well with people interested in PvP. Depending on the reward and penalty of course.

We do not know the complete model for SotA. We do know pieces of details, a loose outline. We don't have a lot of details on why they have decided to not have corpse looting in PvP. From what I remember it's 1 major thing that has been stated for why they do not have full loot.

Item attachment. The player gains an affinity as they use a weapon. The loss of this weapon has more of a long term impact. UO did not have this, not sure if any persistent world game does.

They have alluded to other factors. Everything will be tradable. Things like house deeds and Kickstarter pledge weapons will be tradable. How does an MMO stop trading? Make them soul bound. Soul bound items are not availing in full loot either. Making some items tradable but not lootable is doable but it's a step in the wrong direction - insurance.

Also, PvP was partly an item sink. Kill, loot, then salvage items takes them out of the game. It wasn't a 100% item sink, players had to choose to loot and salvage. Item decay instead of full loot takes the choice out and makes death carry a penalty of decay 100% of the time. Item/gold sinks are a must in a persistent world. Decay with an escalating cost of repair is both an item sink and a gold sink.

I wouldn't mind full loot PvP but I believe it's wishful thinking. Maybe a partial loot would be possible but I don't see them changing their minds about item affinity.

SotA is doing a lot of new design changes, for a persistent world, so much of all this is a wait and see. For the most part, I just get into the discussion part, the subtle impact of differences from other models.

 

@Ristra, "Making the reward itself a penalty for choosing to not accept the challenge will only go over well with people interested in PvP."

This is where you lose me. To me, this statement is absolute nonsense. There are always opportunity costs. Do what you want to do, and don't do what you don't want to do, and don't fret about what other people are getting for the things they do. Those are THEIR rewards. If you don't do what they do, you have no expectation to get what they get.

I don't anticipate taking up crafting to any great degree. Should I claim that I am being penalized for not getting the rewards for an activity in which I take no part, by my own choice? Depending on how character advancement is handled, I do not anticipate taking part in PvE beyond what is required to gain the necessary XP to develop my character. Again, should I consider that the devs are penalizing me because I choose not to do what someone else does?

Your reward or lack thereof is based upon what YOU do, or do not do. Don't blame anyone else for what YOU choose not to do.

 

You seem to be a little off on my meaning. When someone crafts, the reward is within that crafting. If you can craft and PvE at the same time (is that possible?!) Crafting does not increase the PvE reward and PvE does not increase the crafting reward.

PvP, get your reward. PvE get that reward too. All is well.

But to expect more out of PvE just because you are flagged for PvP is a bit much. With the change away from full loot to item decay both PvP and PvE have the same risk of death penalty.

Should a PvE gain more resources when gathering just because they are flagged for PvE? No, they get their resources when they gather and IF they need to PvE to gain access to that resource they get the PvE reward also.

If you are attempting to gather and have to clear PvE MOBs and do some PvP then it's each style's reward: gather + PvE reward + PvP reward and not gather x2 (PvE) x2( PvP)

Again, it's not that I am fighting off PvP. I seek balance. It may seem that I am fighting off PvP but that would probably be because many people push for the balance to be in PvP favor.

 

@Ristra, "But to expect more out of PvE just because you are flagged for PvP is a bit much. With the change away from full loot to item decay both PvP and PvE have the same risk of death penalty."

Has it been announced that there will be no full loot with open PvP? I haven't heard that.

Anyway, I don't think your point is valid. For one thing, if you can PvE and PvP simultaneously, you are a better man than I am. In fact, in <a href="https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/?topic=rewards-for-pvppve-compared-to-only-pve&amp;paged=2#post-23591">this thread</a> , I'm having an argument with Sir Mishri where I maintain that if you are solo in a high threat PvP area trying to PvE, you are being stupid, because some crafty PK is going to wait until you are engaged with a mob, low on health, and he'll pick that moment to jump you, and you'll have a first hand opportunity to experience once again how SotA handles player death.

So, per unit time, I suspect that a PvE + PvP player will average about the same, loot wise, as either a pure PvP player or a pure PvE player, because most people, if they are not stupid, will do one or the other at any one time rather than trying and failing to do both simultaneously.

 

Why should PvP average out to the same loot as someone that only PvE's. Someone putting on a play or musical doesn't get to average out the loot with PvE. They are choosing to do something else rather than PvE.

You are PvPing and choosing to not PvE. That time you choose to not PvE is because you are enjoying the PvP content. Shouldn't that PvP content carry it's own reward?

<i>"Has it been announced that there will be no full loot with open PvP? I haven?t heard that."</i>

<i>As far as death, you will not lose your items. We have not finalized specifics of what happens when you die but I can assure you it will not be a situation where others can loot or steal gear. A durability penalty is highly probable however.</i> -B

https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/?topic=item-loss-decay/#post-3460

BUT, Chris did say something about full loot option for guild PvP. Would have to hunt that one down to quote.

https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/?topic=qa-with-chris-and-richard-in-chat-2/#post-5797

Found it.

 

Ack, I that back, Chris did not say full loot PvP. Chris is also stating there will be no full loot.

 

no full loot pvp

big

 

Full Loot; Rest In Peace.

For you UO2 Fans, maybe they can do a movie instead?
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/19330922/Ultima/Graphics/avatar-full-loot.jpg

 

i believe Full Loot option for PVP offers great risk and a greedy incentive for the more prominant pvpers but they also have to remember that if the risk supercedes the reward then the part time pvpers will not partake causing pvp to lack in playerbase thus eventuating into what pvp was like in UO post trammel.

I do fully support Full Loot but with some limitations asto what full loot implies. In saying this i do not mean that you should be able to take everything but the underwear off the person. I believe if they allowed a small pouch on the person or a small ruksack that allowed the person to store some stuff in there with a capped weight limit that was magically bound so that anything that was in the pouch could not be taken but everything else could would be a fair tradeoff, thus the looter could take all the stuff there vic was wearing and everything that couldnt fit in the secure pouch.

This is a concept that could possibly work

 

@Guerrilla - This was on it's way to death... Just when I think it's out, you pull it back in!

@Avataracid - LOL

@Matheryn - No concept needed, no support needed, full loot is not in this game. However, there are many ways to win against other players and will be some in here.

 

Ive just had a thought on a system for full loot IF it was the case. Seems a lot of people are for it but a lot of people against it as they dont think its fair a PK can rock up and 1 hit kill a newer player and take all their stuff.

So my suggestion is, what if there was something that totals up a players skill points and if a player is a lot higher than another then it would be considered an easy kill and no loot will be available. i.e player A (PK) skills points total of 700, attacks player B (newish player) skill points total of 200. When player B gets killed they retain all of their loot in their bag.

This could even go on to say if player B was at 500 skill points then some loot will be available (their gold, resources etc). But once they are close to each other in skill point total (fair enough fight) then full loot is active.

I would think then there is a reward for killing a worthy player and not harassing new players and irritating them to much.

Any thoughts?

 

there will be no open PvP this has been specifically announced by Chris, and from memory the same goes for full loot

 

Was their any news as to what PvP will be available? factions? guild wars? I understand and sympathize with why not to have open PvP but hope there will be a way to join up with say factions and then openly fight against others by choice.

 

That was a stretch goal that we reached (2 mill from memory)

 

$2M: Players Take over the World!!!
? Castles &amp; Keeps effectively a new ?Town Type?, where the structure is ownable by players or guilds
? Guilds can declare war against other guilds
? Guilds can declare as full time PVP
? Guilds can earn a guild house and guild bank
? Guild Tabbard/Shield/Flags useable by all members
? Minimum of 5 castle types added to the game
? Castle merchants with unique merchandise
? Castle defense scenarios for most castles which can be played offline as well as online

 

&lt;-- One happy bunny! thanks for informing me on that.

 

Mission-based PvP was also confirmed very much from the start (i.e., players take a risky mission and are "stuck" in PvP mode for the duration, and other players that want to play PvP are alerted that someone is taking the mission).

Also, some event-based and location-based PvP was described from the start, though I have no idea how that will work, since players will be able to go single player online more or less at will.

 

@SirAsguard - So it's decided there will be no open PvP and no full loot even for the ones that prefer such a playstyle? That decision id accurate sure will decrease the numbers of old UO felucca PvP players that were looking for a UO2 game.

I very much doubt anyone in my guild will try the game out.

I would like the slider to go all the way to open PvP and full loot for the ones that prefer such a playstyle. Anything less would be a developer choice telling us they dont want old felucca players in the game.

 

I don't think anything has been officially decided yet. all we have is conflicting offhand remarks from devs, and self serving remarks on the forums. I'd wait a bit before giving up on the game.

 

huh? We certainly have official remarks.
There is no open world PVP
PVP will be a choice
PVP will be encouraged through quests, events and some rare materials. For instance a quest you take to smuggle goods from point A to point B. As soon as you take the quest you are flagged for PVP. (Can you say camped spot)
The second example was like getting night shade, only available during full moons in the rain and could be in a dangerous area (PVP).

I also believe no full loot was said to be in as well.