Virtue questions

I thought it would be a good excercise for the backers here to create their own virtue questions, and pose them to others on the forum.

I'll start ...

You travel to a town with two friends. One is a good man and intends well in all his actions, but is rakish and likes to break the rules as much as he can get away with, courting danger and creating enemies. The other is a pious man who tries to live his life virtuously, but is also extremely earnest and overly eager to prove this. The baron over this town has set the laws in a draconian fashion, demanding severe punishment for the most minor of infractions, including a sentence of death for crimes of petty theft. Your rakish friend knows this, but steals a minor trinket anyway and is caught after being accused of theft by a shopkeeper. Your other friend feels the punishment will be unjust, so confesses to the crime himself, to save him by sacrificing his own life.

Do you A. JUSTLY reveal that it was your other friend who committed the crime, letting him take an excessively severe and unjust punishment, but for his own mistake, which he did with knowledge of the consequences. Or, B. HUMBLY let your confessing friend take the blame and go to his death, even knowing he is the better man, but also knowing he's more than willing to take the sacrifice and believes doing so expresses his highest moral convictions.

 

Oh you said it didn't you.. "and pose them to others on the forum" That means people get to answer them.. now you've done it!

A: Because if the bastard doesn't take responsibility for his actions and let's his friend get killed in his place.. that basically makes him a murderer and he now deserves the punishment. If he accepts responsibility the punishment may be unjust but he committed the crime knowing the punishment in the first place. It's ALL on him.

If you choose B you're basically an accessory to both murder (from the thieving bastard's point of view) and suicide from the other guy's point of view.

Of course you can always choose option C.. try to take the blame yourself. Or D: try to kill the guards and escape with both your friends.. but really responsibility of the crime belongs solely to the one who committed it. A it is. There is no virtue in the other options.

NEXT!

 

He already chose option D it has been recorded !
Starts at min 1.17.

 

If the Baron is as draconian as that, then even lies could be punishable by death. So if you choose A) then that means your humble friend might also be executed for lying. So I'll choose A) and play in SPO for a while

 

You adventuring in the wild, at distance you eaR some fuzzle, has you aproach you see a hooded man and what appears to be a bard/musician arguing about something. at this time you are still unnoticed!

The hooded man draw his dagger and stabs the bard , has the bard fell thu the ground wounded the hooded man run into the forest with his purse !!


Do you chase the hooded man into the forest for Justice or help the bard for compassion ??

 

I would chase the hooded man for questioning. Chances are, I won't be able to do anything for the bard since I probably won't have any medical skills.

 

There is no justice in letting a man die if you can save him.. assuming of course the man is innocent and you do in fact posses the capacity to save him. So in chasing the hooded guy without first seeing to the bard would not actually be just. I would at least check up on him first.. if he is not in danger of dying without aide you can then pursue the hooded man and come back for the bard later.

Edit: If you have not the medical skills you can still try to move the bard to someone who does.. as you probably wouldn't be able to tell how long he'd live either way..

 

If it is possible to move someone without hurting them further, I'd do that. I am not familiar with all of the things you can do to or even for another player. In the real world, I'd at least be able to not hurt the bard since I know basic first aid. The character I'll probably be in the game will be more of a punish the guilty than protect the innocent type of person I am from day to day. I guess I should have asked:
Am I answering these questions as a middle aged computer graphics mope or the mass murdering Knight Commander of Lord British's knights?

 

Heh.. well if I were to answer based on my character.. he's a ranger with enough skill to be a top class healer (non-magical healing but still effective).. so he could heal the bard and then take his sweet time tracking the hooded guy..

 

I have a few Virtue questions in the small piece of work I wrote for the Underworld Tales writing comp a while back.


'We will begin with you young Master Davin,' she said as the boy now looked visibly unnerved. 'You are traveling a long road with your sister, in tow you have a wagon which is full with all your household goods being moved to a new home. You know that this road is known for thievery and criminal activity, and you can now hear someone approaching from behind you at a high pace. Sure enough as they catch up you glimpse a face easily recognizable from the bounty offices in the nearby villages and their Red Cloaks make a loud statement. Do you charge into battle early and bravely in an attempt try and limit the number of foes you face at any given time knowing that you could still very well fall in battle and leave your sister to the barbarians… Or, do you detach the Wagon knowing that you would have enough time to escape as they would cease chase to loot all of your family's possessions,' she cunningly asked the boy; knowing that there is no right answer, but that which the Virtues will summon in every individual.


'Your mother has given you important information about your family, she has not told you whom it is about, only that you should tell no one. The next day she must leave and you are unsure why, your grandmother has come to look after you. Your grandmother asks where your mother has departed to, and what has she told you… Do you honor your mother's request and tell your grandmother nothing, or do you tell her honestly everything your mother has informed you of?'

A very good friend of yours has been taken from you, taken from this world, from the vile forces of darkness of the Underworld. Do you sacrifice the memory of your friend and access into the Underworld by safely living above and sealing all entrances? Or instead, do you choose to honor the memory of your friend, and pursue the darkness knowing that few who enter into the Underworld, ever return,'

Full text:
https://archiveofourown.org/works/998333

 

1: Assumption that the single known criminal is intent on doing something. Further assumption is the guarantee that he has associates. Neither of these is a guarantee. in this question. Further assumption is that you're able to deal with the potential threat despite having not yet been provoked. Attacking without provoking isn't courageous.. it's cowardly since you're basically attacking out of fear of what hasn't yet been made clear without even being provoked..

I prefer not to panic. I would ask his intentions first. If he has associates chances are they're already close by. It would seem to be the options are either turn around and find another route before driving into an ambush.. or try to run through it hoping they wouldn't be able to stop the wagon or give pursuit. Or go with detaching the wagon and making a break for it.. but there's not enough information here.. either original choice is a knee-jerk reaction.

2: Did you promise your mother not to tell? What exactly is this important information? If keeping a secret puts a good person in danger then there is no honor in keeping it. Likewise if telling puts a good person at risk or similar situation then keep your mouth shut. There's no way to answer this question without knowing what the information is. "Important" can mean anything.

3: Hmm selfishly seek revenge and probably die in the process.. or ensure the safety of everyone around by sealing the entrances. Seems rather like a no brainer to me. Least it's how I read this one. Besides.. there is no honor in throwing your life away for no long term benefit to anyone. What ELSE is down in the underworld that can come out. Even if you kill whatever you killed your friend what is ultimately solved? If there's only 1 small threat it might be worth doing.. but "umderworlds" are usually filled with many threats. Besides.. sealing the entrances isn't a sacrifice of memory.

(Get the feeling I can't just pick one or the other? I always have to pick the questions apart).

 

I wouldn't define letting your friend confess and take the blame an issue with humility, but rather it's a question of Honor.

And I don't think it's a mater of Justice to reveal that your friend committed a crime for "an unjust punishment", however it might be a question of Honesty.

 

Yea I think its hard to state apply the virtues perfectly. But I'd argue Honesty doesn't require you to always be vocal, and even though the law may be unjust, if you detach the morality of the law from this, and treat it like a force of nature, its Just that a person faces the consequences of his own actions, rather than allowing others to face the consequences for them on their behalf. I thought about Honesty being the right virtue, but I decided on Justice.

On the other question, Honor maybe might apply, since it might be considered honoring a friendship, but I don't know that there's always an agreement in a friendship not to contradict them. To me, its about whether you should decide to make the choice for your friend, or let him decide for himself, and live his own life, which I think is about Humility. Its a matter of you not saying you're right, and your friend's wrong. And who knows, your friends decision to take on the punishment might influence your other friend to become a better person, feeling guilty that he didn't take the fall himself.

 

I think it was a matter of Honesty for the friend, and a matter of honor to admit to a crime and have the courage to take the punishment. I don't think the Avatar in question is involved in the matter at all.

In fact I think it would be an act of self-rightousness (PRIDE) to get involved at all. So to turn your friend in when he could face an unjust punishment would be unvirtuous.

 

Yea, but that's why I made it a matter of deciding between Humility and Justice; by choosing Justice, you're giving up Humility and acting prideful. I might suggest you would choose B and act humble, and disagree that A really represents Justice at all.

As Bowen said, you could also take the blame for the crime, which would be humble, but how is that really better than letting your friend take the blame, except you're taking on the burden yourself? Maybe to confuse the justice system, I guess

 

It's not just to rat out a friend knowing that he will face an unjust punishment. wouldn't you think?

 

But that's what Bowen's choice was, over the alternative... he chose A. That was always the point of the virtue questions, to get a divided opinion. Personally, I think the format of virtue questions can be misleading, but I could find the same problem with the ones in the Ultima games.

 

I don't think I've ever seen a "virtue question" I didn't find problems with. They always rely on assumptions that may not be true or lacking in enough information to really answer. Example: The delivery of the uncounted coin. You run into a beggar. Do you give him some of the coin knowing it won't be missed? Or do you deliver it all knowing the trust in you was well placed. Well why can't you give the beggar some of your OWN money? Why does being 'compassionate' have to turn you into a thief?

Or Justice vs Compassion.. kill the murderer knowing he's the only support for a child.. or let him live. What's stopping you from taking care of the child yourself? Or finding him a better home? What kind of influence is a murderer going to have on this kid? Is this guy repentant or not?

With me it's usually.. one answer is the clear cut better for reasons the question doesn't touch on.. or neither option is good because there's a better 3rd option the question doesn't give you. I can't just pick one or the other.. I have to think it through first.. what would *I* really do in this scenario.

 

exactly.

 

Yea, I'm actually in the middle of writing something (player fiction) that deals with this issue. : > Hope to get it finished soon.