What is the real purpose of PvP Zones?

In this case I would like to transfer my account



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No worries, Darkmoon. I, at least, am fully aware that open PvP wouldn't work in this community/game.

That was just a bit of early-morning nostalgia to the youngest days of SotA. The folks within the PvP community were vying to get a workable open-world solution, but the Devs (as we now see) had something else in mind.

Given the talent working behind the scenes, I've got faith that this system will deliver. The non-PvP-types can rest easy, I'm sure.

 

I hope each zone has objectives to complete or some type of game to engage the players in making the PvP engagement more thrilling.

 

I'll try to summarize my understanding of some of the views expressed in favour of open pvp shardfall zones thus far, as a tool for understanding or at least viewing various opinions and desires regarding these zones at a glance. I am including a separate section for summary of views opposed to PVP zones, or of limiting the PVP zones as well.

1) Need to be able to kill anything that moves (and people who stand still too ) for a kind of "immersion" or realism. I want a place where I can stab anyone. I'll include those that want a pvp zone free of immune pve "spies" in this category. People who want open wars between guilds or groups without "innocent" invulnerable spectators would fit here also.

2) Need a place for PVP'ers to congregate, shardfall will be a place that will draw in pvp'ers together rather than being scattered over the world finding no one to fight.

3) Need more peeps to kill in general, whether they like it or not, or I need a place where there are such killers to fight against. The more bewildered PVE'ers who come in to fall before my knife, the better. I need helpless victims to gank, or I need helpless victims to defend by killing their would-be gankers.

4) I need special resources that only the PvP'ers can have, I don't want PvE'ers to be able to get the best stuff without buying it from me or killing me for it. PvE'ers don't *have* to come here, unless they don't like being gimped with inferior stuff... This would include players who want PVP zones set up as bottlenecks PVE'ers are forced through to access content.

5) I want places PVE'ers cannot even see without my boot in their face. It's not just the resources, not just the bottleneck or freedom to PVP, I want to prevent PVE'ers to have any enjoyment from this special zones' design whatsoever without being forced into PVP.

As a list of counter-argument viewpoints, again a summary from my understanding of what I've read in this thread thus far:

1) I don't want to have to PVP to access all the items the game has to offer. I don't want special resources I can't get somewhere else in the world; if PVP zones don't uniquely have special resources, I'm fine with them. This lot are probably okay with PVP zones having increased resources, as long as those resources can be found elsewhere in the world but not all bundled up nicely to be taken in one spot as they may be in the PVP zone.

1b) A subset of the above would argue against PVP zones having any special advantage in terms of quantity of resources, but the main in this category do not mind access to resources being "easier" to find in quantity in PVP zones, as long as the same resources are available in reasonable (but lesser) quantity elsewhere.

2) I want to be able to see all the zones without having to go PVP. These players don't want to miss the view, or have resources "wasted" on zones they will never see because they truly want no part of PVP.

Thus ends my summary for now, I may add to or modify it going forward as I've probably missed something here or there, or may have botched a point or two.

 

*sigh* Not even close, Albus. I have to assume that you didn't bother to read my responses on the subject at all.

What saddens me the most is the shameful way in which this has devolved into nothing more than a pathetic flamewar, with people (including myself) talking past each other. To truly understand the other person's point of view, we must put ourselves in their shoes for a hex or two. (Or deathshroud, in my case.) If we're not willing to do that, then what is the point of the OP?

Since it's clear that I won't be listened to here, I'm done with this discussion. *washes hands*

 

I thought he was pretty spot on personally. I dont think it has been a flame war at all. There has not been any call for moderation and it has been civil for the most part. I value everyone's opinion and I want to side with what is best for the game, and not drive people away in droves. That is my only goal in this thread. We know from past games what happens and what the results will be. We have that luxury, in retrospect.

 

I wouldn't want to intentionally undermine anybody's post on this thread as I know pvp is a touch and go subject. However, I never really get the time to sit down and read 16 pages of forums these days. Imo, the real purpose of pvp zones is to provide a meeting place for pks, pvpers, anti-pks, greifers, newbies, guilds that specialize in pvp and congregation to hunt down people who are on 'contested-item quests' or various quests that require passing through those areas, and also to provide pvp'rs with a place to find pvp related craftable materials. That's it for me. Anything past that, idk.

 

At this point I like to think that this thread might serve as a primer for the upcoming Dev+ discussion (of which I sadly will not be able to take part in). So I want to put this out there just as food for thought for the Dev+ guys.

What among the reasons given by PvPers requires that non-PvPers be forced out of SPO in order to enter a PvP zone? The question assumes the devs stuck with their original plan of reducing resource output for SPO so that it wouldn't be exploitive.

It is not my intention to restart that debate here as to why.. but what among the responses here would require it? If it for example a place for PvPers to meet.. There's certainly nothing stopping anyone from entering a PvP zone in that capacity.

 

Personally, I could care less whether someone enters Shardfall in SPO... provided that it reverts to a 'normal' (or, 'non-PvP') zone.

And, of course, that they can't go online in the zone.

In other words, I'm fine with SPO Shardfall so long as exploits are eliminated.

 

+1

The main problem with the entire debate is that it suffers form the yin/yang effect. There is a million miles of middle ground, but people keep pushing to the extreme which results in a rapid backlash in the other direction. PvP was finally getting some love, then thread "as titled" demanded the immediate shutdown of SPO mode did nothing but deteriorate the PvP cause by provoking the players that don't like it. In kind, three other thread were spawned in an all out attack on all things PvP which is also extreme. I hope everyone can go enjoy a fine beverage this weekend and remember we are all in this together and compromise is the ultimate solution. *cheers*

 

I never once attacked pvp, and I have stated I am for pvp zones. I am opposed to the rare resources in the zone, and the not being able to see the content unless you are pvp. I have not attacked pvp once, and I dont think many people have. And where do you get from the title that we must shut down the pvp zones. He is asking what the reason for it is. He is not demanding their removal.

 

I don't really think many people have been attacking PvP either. But there is apparently a lot of confusion and perception issues going on right now and some people might be taking things the wrong way. The devs have changed their thinking for whatever reason and didn't really explain why or what benefit that change would bring.

 

Bowen,

Bowen, I truly enjoy your posts. Although I don't agree with some of them, just the way you word them makes me feel like we are having a casual conversation walking though a park. And Ravicus, that post was not about you or any particular person. People get emotional/defensive, especially when they feel they are being attacked by other people. I have said this before, the written word is subject to interpretation, and it only takes one misunderstanding to enter the pits of hell.

People do get challenged for their opinions which is healthy, but there are times.... I don't even need to say it... everyone knows what happens when the tide is going the other direction.

 

Appologies if I have mistakenly omitted or failed to include in the summary your own reasons for wanting the Shardfall open pvp zones; I did read every post in this thread, and would have characterized your view as I perceived it to fit within category #1 in my summary, i.e. "1) Need to be able to kill anything that moves (and people who stand still too ) for a kind of "immersion" or realism. I want a place where I can stab anyone. I'll include those that want a pvp zone free of immune pve "spies" in this category. People who want open wars between guilds or groups without "innocent" invulnerable spectators would fit here also." My perception from your posts was that the central desirable feature of open-pvp zone for the freedom for everyone there to have the freedom to attack anyone else, with no one present in such zone immune to attack, and with no unique resources being required for said pvp zone to be entertaining.

I certainly did not mean for such a preference to be a "flame" although I did try to be bluntly descriptive of each preference I listed, and concise such as I could be while attempting to convey the essential characteristics of each position. I will repeat that I did not consider my summary perfection and thought my phrasing would encourage clarifications or additions any might like to add. No one seemed to have attempted a summary of postings here yet, thus the effort made on my part at such. I am more than open to further discourse here and would hope my effort at summary would not compel any to be silenced, it was actually my only post in this thread up until this point.

 

Its all good, I just wonder why you need to comment on others and their feelings instead of sticking to the thread topic. Broad statements like that intend to draw people in to comment as you finger point without fingerpointing. If that makes sense. Things do get emotional and sticking to the topic helps keeping things in line. When ever I say things in jest, or say something about some one else, I undoubtedly get reported. I have learned my lesson on that front.

 

I guess I was just selfishly wanting people to take a chill pill. Themo's last confrontation was hostile. It would be great if the words were chosen as if we even attempted to understand each other.

 

as I have been reminded so many times, that is the moderators job lol. Nothing personal, and I like the effort, but it gets you in trouble lol.

 

I do, and I've consistently supported the inclusion of PvP in the game.

I've never suggested how PvP should be run. I've only ever made one request... that I be given the choice to not participate.

 

In general, open combat is frowned upon in urban areas, and to the best of my knowledge, those flagged for open PvP are not disallowed from raising hand to one another, simply that the guards may take exception.

Just as freedom of speech does not guarantee freedom from the consequences of speech, freedom to attack anyone, anywhere, for any reason or no reason at all does not guarantee freedom from the consequences of the act.

 

Bullpoop.
Anyone flagged for PvP gets 100% of the map. Anyone not wishing to participate has access to 95% of the map.

I understand your argument, it's just specious.