Why is making and eating food more complex than casting magic spells?

Unattended macroing. Each cast of a spell gained a small amount of experience as long as the spell cast was not cast repeatedly. So the full rotation of all the spells being cast in a macro all day long pushed a server wide nerf on mages.

The intent was that mages would be rare and would be powerful. The learning of spells was meant to be hard. Someone reverse engineered the learning process and made it public. Anyone could research any spell very quickly. The system of research was no longer a challenge it was a tedium thus removed.

With an over abundance of mages and constantly spent global spell economy, they were both removed.

Still, I am sure there was at least one person that enjoyed it.

 

hmm seems like too much work i will probably PK myself from not eating the right stuff or drinking! When i get off work and come to enjoy a game i dont want to have to work so hard again! Remembering what mixes with what what i need and dont need as nourishment! So if you see me laying on the side of the road, please nourish me!

 

Umm, I don't think that starvation will work like you think it will???
RG said that being full is a buff, so putting in 5 meals from a vendor to top off before questing gives you a buff for 5*2 hours of questing, the buff goes away which is warning 1.
Then RG said it would take a long time before starvation, so maybe another 10-20h of questing you'd get a "hungry" debuff which is warning 2.
Then although not mentioned I'll bet you'd get another 10-20h "starving" debuff which is warning 3.
Then you start taking damage debuffs.

So at least 20h questing without even having to consider taking food, but probably closer to 48-72h realtime. If you do that without at some point even considering giving your avatar something of all the food stuff going around you I think you might deserve to die.

Then everyone doesn't need to be a cook or have mad cooking skills + recipes, that is a total misunderstanding. Just like you don't need to know crafting to get furniture or weaponry - same with food. Or put just 1 point in it and go for the MEAT+FIRE recipe - nothing fancy but BBQ will be good enough for me.

If you are not interested in RP but simply want to be out slaying in PVE or PVP you will be fine, then when you turn home to unload the loot then just use some of it to buy ready made stuff from a vendor.
Spend enough and you will probably eat better than most who craft it themselves.

 

I realy hope they have the guts to ad after a acceptable time that you die if you do not eat.

I am just still to worried that great work Richard invested in cooking and recipes will be futile and all this work will only mean at the end that "Tournament" or "Competition Players" will care for eating.

I worry most will say.... pah i am fine for my playstyle... do not nead that extra food buff.... to much calculating.

Example:

I did play often in MMO like this -- i hunt the easy monsters most of the time,the green ones, the ones who are a save kill.
These will be killable without eating, without buff spells... they will be killable probably without eating....

I will just wait until i have higher level - what probably will be also in this game the highest boost as always and then hunt the harder monsters.
Why hassle with food and all that stuff. I just wait until my level is high enough or i get more player to kill that monster.


So to get players who would do this playstyle also to participate with the food system let us starve and then fianly die if we are so stupid.
Else i think food , even with this great system will end up not being used from the majority.
Could be that debuffs might get us eating, but not as sure as dying from starvation.
I hope Richard is right about debuffs being enough motivation to purchase food and participate with the food system.

But maybe just implend it and let us test it. Maybe i am totaly wrong with my concern.

 

Myrcello I think that anyone interested in the RP bits will be definately interested in food. We already have player towns focused on providing taverns for drinking and eating. Plus I've seen plenty of people who say they will love to try crafting it out.
So even if the PVE or PVP crowds won't care below the buff, I think that there will be lots and lots of food opportunities to go around. Its such an integral part of human nature after all.
Yes I agree that most will be in the consumption end but that is how it is in the real world as well...

 

Ill be stopping by all the towns Taverns!

 

I like the food system with ONE exception, that is the half life portion of it. Nothing crafted should EVER vanish till its used. Find player crafted high end foods on monsters would be fine but no to spoilage. That just make the whole thing stink. Forage 1 day then go hunting another then questing. When I get to wanting to craft, all my foraging stuff has spoiled? Would make us to not enjoy that very much, not very much at all precious.

What would you all think of regs spoiling in your backpack?

 

We had so many nice Taverns in UO that had food at the end only be decoration but no real meaning ingame.
I think the debuff that Richard talked about will be hopefully enough to motivate us players to come visit your wonderful taverns besides the nice people.

One of the nicest ways to get a buff i think was still Star Wars Galaxy. To get a Mana Buff you had to go into a tavern and watch the skilled dancing ladies for like 3 minutes or 5 minutes.

If you had a Master Dancer you could make a lot of money.
Or a Master Musician.

Watch minute 15 and on to see what i mean:

Spoiler

 

Amazing thread ! Thanks to king Gariott for chiming in, thats what helps us shape the discussions that will guide our future and what being a true fearless leader means.

I also LOVE the cooking system, but it does leave me a bit bitter for many reasons previously stated.

I did not know we could just cast a demon in all impunity and "just lose some karma" just as in UO. There is so much we drag on from UO, yet we know we have to infuse new spirit in it. Almost all suggestions in here I have already stated once or twice and how many times during developpement of UO... we need to head in this direction at least for single player !

It's so reassuring to see so many people (after such a long time) who seem to speak the same language I do (which I tought was universal roleplaying language) but some things were lost in translation.

I don't wish to take sides and I admit openly that I've sometimes sat for looong times pondering about if I should say what I really think because of its extreme polarity, and sometimes it came off sounding very bad I apologize. Especially my gripe with choosing unity instead of building our own structure, and of not "opening the door" to full PVP crowd by just saying someday we planned on doing something like siege perilous.

I admit getting frustrated and loosing it over those news... not because I love pvpers (its hard to love them hehe) but because I love the human spirit that endures and the eternal flame of mages. Both these philosophical concepts and groups have shown extreme loyalty towards your creative soul and deserve a just and meaningful way to express their soul and passion in return.

What I would humbly ask of you king Gariott, is that magic be a product of real knowledge and wisdom, by giving them mystery and depth with no intention to "balance" anything. This is the way of spiritual ascension and ultima roleplaying. Let them seek that secret spell that is not written anywhere, let them fail and have consequences for being too daring, let them feel the pain of not being wise by their own device.

Don't take their hand and make the same errors other games have done and end up seeing horrid roleplaying scenes in which a great mage is not even respected "oh he's a master mage(like the hundred before him), speciality firewall, he can join our raiding party"...

Magic can create illusions and be used for many purposes including creating rain via silver nitrates *cough*... Raistlin was a master of illusions and used reagents too, we need this depth to beleive. Lord Hickman is one of my childhood heroes and I consider him visionary... he said however that Raistlin was all Lady Weis, that he merely had part in creating the idea for the "anti-hero" or tragic hero... that she did the "fleshing" and "soul searching".

I feel like we need him/her now more than ever ; we need that deep sense of seriousness and diligence and spiritual grounding.

The silver serpant dosen't recoil in front of the sun, it navigates,it steers the wormhole into infinite diversity and through courage and mastery it creates infinity and the survival of the spirit through the passage of death.

It's not about the man in the parlour prophetizing the end is coming soon and making his survival skills perfect to impress others... its about the one with the shadows all around, trying to find order but its chaos that found em.

Your humble knight seer also asks that if we're to have reagents and mystery, that I can flag full pvp full loot and somehow never see reagents and other items that come from PvE only folks... I should not see them, their house or their vendors. I need to be able to beleive in the world's magic... it needs sacrifices, just like in the tower of high sorcery.

This is very important to my sanity, but hey I'll survive

 

My opinion on this subject is inbetween the OP's point and the typical "fast and furious" point.

I think there should be basic abilities (like cantrips, if you will) that a magic user in this world can use after training and one-time reagent use. The more complex the spell, the more reagents and time spent learning the spell and scribing it into your spellbook.

If you want to cast a fireBOLT? Good. Wave your hand with the proper gestures, speak the proper words, and the fireBOLT that does a low amount of damage erupts from your fingers and hits your target.

If you want to cast a fireBALL? A more powerful version of fireBOLT? You need a black pearl and sulfurous ash in your reagent bag to bolster the power of that spell and cause much more damage.

Want to hit something with a little shocking spark? Use the gestures, speak the words, and Tzzzzt!!! Want to call down a big bolt of lightning from the sky on a rainy day? Raise your iron rod that you have charged and prepared with mandrake root and sulfurus ash and use the correct gestures, and kaBOOOOOOM!

There can be a happy medium for both parties, I think, and that is something that they should be shooting for.

I can throw together an apple turnover pretty quick with just flour, butter, sugar and apples with a little campfire...but if I want a delicious apple pie with a great degree of flavor and texture? I better have vanilla bean, imported cinnamon, good baking apples, and a good organic flour in a nice stone oven at the exact proper temperature, and it better give me a huge buff if I eat it.

Happy mediums, folks. Happy mediums.

 

Hey I was just telling everyone how extreme I am when it comes to roleplaying, why did you have to repeat happy mediums twice

Welcome to Shroud btw

 

I think they have thought spell casting through this thoroughly or more. Not a lot of people get upset when they cant make an apple pie but they do if they cant "corp por". So they offer this for public consumption as an example of the level of design they have planned for spell casting.

Im hoping spell casting discussions this thorough are what made them to decide to do a kickstarter.

 

I like the depth that RG went into about the cooking system and it is a good indicator that the other crafting systems will be equally detailed I hope....

However, I do have to say that I want more than just re-gen effects to eating. It seems that all this complexity is a bit wasted if all you can ultimately do is boost the regen rate of 2 or 3 stats.
Will anybody really care if you ate an apple pie or a blueberry tart if they basically just do the same thing? All too often i find myself not bothering with cooking in games because its generally more effort than its worth, I really hope that will not be the case here.

It would be good if there were more variation to the effects of food, if being well fed on certain foods provided a temporary XP % gain boost for example. These bonuses could be extended to other areas, maybe being slightly drunk could provide a small amount of damage resistance, or carrots provide slight boosts to the ability to see in the dark. Certain food types could temporarily aid in crafting ability etc. I'm sure there are loads of great ideas out there, and would love to hear other peoples input, hopefully the dev team might even add some of them.

 

I like the idea of food based around re-gen both in application and spirit - I am really against xp boosts of any sort ...

I do like the idea of "limited enhance abilities" BUT not stat boosts

If lore permits night vision, repel dead, charm (for bartering with NPC's) ... things like this

The main reason why I'm against stat boosts is simply that they don't ever truly seem to fit the world (subjective of course)

On a personal level - if I wanted to play a game like that I would still be playing LoTRO (exception lembas bread)

 

I agree that this should be the system used. I'd be that guy with the fireball that toasts the bad-butt (refraining from swearing) green dragon and its tag along minions into cinders while the cut-n-paste wizards spam fireballs all day and hardly kill the flies around their pack mules butt all because they are lazy and I spent several hours preparing spell reagents for my couple hours of kick butt adventuring... reap what you sow... another result should be that I get better XP and loot then they do too.

 

Would be hard to work around a system that bases the spell power increase on deteriorating reagents and a jump in deterioration if transferred to another character... such as, I create my reagents a few hours before my questing time thus my "personalized" components are "fresh" and at maximum possible spell strength increase..

Now I could mix a batch up and sell them to people but transfer to another character would reduce potency as well as how long they let them sit around before actually using them... This would prevent stock piling of reagents and reselling them as each transfer could reduce potency as well as how long they sat in storage or on a vendor.