Why NO pvp.

That is simple.

http://www.gamesradar.com/the-wow-funeral-raid-four-years-later/

Check that site, watch the video.

pvp attracts people that do exactly those kinds of things.

And i dont want those people in the same game i play.

 

If you design PvP to only work for killers, that's all you'll get. If you add purpose that appeals to many players, remove roadblock to participation, cater to what people <i>would</i> like doing.

PvP didn't create trolls. I assure you're they're vastly more common in PvE zones. PvP is actually highly effective at removing them.

 

See....i am now 42 years old. I am a gamer since i can think.
I am an online gamer since online gaming was possible. I started with muds, which is basically a text based version of an mmo. And whenever there was pvp in a game, no matter in what game (and btw, it was ESPECIALLY bad in Ultima online), the people who do things like that were there. Always.
And call me ******** if you want to, but i REALLY dont want to be around people whose only enjoyment is making life miserable for others.
Now, i came to accept the fact that there will be pvp in this game, and im fine with it, because it seems that RG will try to keep the ... morally challenged people at bay, and not force pvp on the others who dont want it.
I just want to post this so that those of you pvpers who are openminded do understand WHY some of us are so strongly opposed to pvp and want nothing to do with it.

 

There will always be some people who just want to kill others in a game out of fun. You cannot prevent this in open PvP.

 

The thing which struck me was the comments section on that site, and how many commenters apparently saw it as hilarious, with absolutely nothing wrong done. How people can be that morally bankrupt, it's simply astounding.

 

There have always been a few, on the fringes of games I've played. But there was a purpose to PvP, and most of the people PvPed for that purpose. My point is that if you squeeze the purpose out by saying "pvp shouldn't do this" then you don't get anyone that says, "lets take this castle to unlock the big dragon", you only get griefers.

UO actually rewarded griefing and then didn't provide any other outlet for those who might enjoy PvP as a sport. There was nothing strategic to the PvP. In most games, this is really just gate hopping - people sitting near the edge of a safezone trying to get lucky and get a kill. Generally considered the lowest and most boring form of PvP that only exists if there's nothing else to do. Many games since have experimented with solutions to these problems.

I'm trying to understand what people hate. Death penalties too harsh, just kids trolling, simply lacking the reflexes to be successful (I'm certainly in this category), or maybe it's just repetitive and uninteresting. If I knew what people didn't like about it, and I knew what other games, particularly competitive ones you might enjoy, I'd try to find a way to make in interesting to you. At least on the edges. Given two groups vying for a castle, one of which you preferred... would in be interesting to play a game with the catapults? Would it be interesting to have repeatable "support the war effort" quests where you crafted or w/e. In the end, you're contributions help and you get rewarded. Even if you have absolutely no interesting in going toe to toe with someone.

 

I should add that I have done funerals in faction games where everyone was effectively flagged. I have done multiple weddings in L2 with many sides of clan wars, even opening up the castles to the enemies to attend. It does work with mature people.

 

@PrimeRib - different people probably have many different reasons. I don't 'hate' PvP. Fact is, I've never even experienced it. It simply doesn't interest me. I understand that it gets peoples competitive juices flowing if there's a real person opposing them, but it doesn't do that for me. However, the stories I've heard, of which the OP is a small sample, don't exactly encourage me to give it a try. If the trollish elements could be removed, then I probably could be convinced to at least try it, though I suspect it still won't grab me.

 

@Lanatir:

The post is insignificant, the funeral was held in a contested territory. You do not go into a contested territory and hold a funeral. Albeit, an unfortunate event it is really the organizers of the funeral who are at fault here. They should have held it elsewhere. The developers have stated several times there WILL be PvP.

This is a problem with WoW's design, I could not see a thing like this happening in UO. Players were well aware of the potential danger when holding events outside of town. Many players knew they had to prepare for possible interruption. In WoW, they relied on the developers to solve their problem. Apparently it didn't work.

 

After reading all your other posts this is exactly the answer i expected from someone like you.

 

@Lanatir you claim to be 42 years old, and you say you dislike pvp and pvp players for their behaviour. But let me tell you, you are the only one here acting like a judgemental prick ;o)

This is, I think the 5th post of yours that I've read. And basically in every thread you label people as "a person like you" etc.
Really, just go away or behave.

 

@Lanatir:

This thread, at least based on the first post is more of an argument FOR open PvP. I think this is the case because players in WoW were separated by different servers (PvE/PvP). This resulted in many players feeling they were safe in contested territory. Remember, this is a "zone" located in the most heated war between human and horde in Azeroth history. A comparison would be me attempting to hold a funeral on the outer fringes of Helmand province in Afghanistan.

 

@UA <blockquote>Players were well aware of the potential danger when holding events outside of town. Many players knew they had to prepare for possible interruption.</blockquote>
You don't think that maybe they wanted to hold it away from settled areas so they could have a bit of privacy? I find it perfectly reasonable that they could state the reason for what they are doing, request a truce and privacy, and expect that people would have the courtesy to give them their space for the short time that this memorial would have taken. Whether it's contested territory or not, why couldn't they give them their brief cease fire?

 

You do know we are talking about someone who really DIED there, right? A life that ended. Not someone losing his loot or anything. And people who showed their respect at a funeral ingame at a place this person used to like. Because they couldnt be at the real funeral. And you think that not having the dignity to at least respect that for a WHILE is completely ok 'because it was in a pvp zone'. So, pvp goes over human dignity and respect for you, and thats what i mean with 'people like you'.

 

@Lanatir:

I am honestly getting tired of the personal attacks because you cannot argue against something other than your own point of view. I understand that it was a person's life that ended. That said, if I were one of the organizers of the funeral I would not have held it there. I would have held it in a place that restricts PvP, possibly even on a PvE server. There were a dozen other places where it could have been held, they chose a poor location. It is CONTESTED territory, meaning there is a constant war between two factions. I am a realist and I understand the difference between the REAL world and a VIRTUAL world. The only comparison is the one I clearly provided to you above, which you chose to disregard.

 

Well, it's a tragedy, always, when someone dies. That is life... It ends.

Does not justify that someone takes this EXAMPLE and uses it to lump everybody together only because they happen to like PVP. Would be the same thing if I said all black people... All jewish people etc. You see where that leads right?

This is the PVP forum for Shroud of the Avatar, it has nothing to do with what happened there on this WOW server, and is not even related in ANY way.

So the fact that you opened this thread alone, and try to lump all of us pvp players together saying we are basically all like those guy... Is imho an insolence... But then again, what do I know.

 

No. See, thats where you are wrong. I didnt say you are ALL like that, on the contrary. But what i DID say is that the pvp ruleset always ATTRACTS those players. Does that mean they are all like that? Hell no. But i wanted to explain why some of us are so strictly AGAINST pvp. It is for reasons like that.

And UA: This was the server this person played on. The server her guild was on. The funeral was held in her favorite place. EVERYBODY but ONE guild approved of the funeral. This guild attacked them not because it was a pvp server but because they wanted to cause emotional harm to them, which they even ADMITTED later in the forums.

I already said i would be ok with pvp, as long as there are mechanisms, and i talk about real INGAME mechanisms that prevent or punish behaviour like that.

 

@Duke - given how certain of the PvP crowd lump non-PvPers together as 'carebears', I'd say a little lumping back is no more than justice.

I'm not endorsing Lanatir's generalization though - I'm perfectly aware that not *all* PvPers are like that. But certainly some of them need serious remedial social lessons.

 

@Sirinan:

You are the same Sirinan who has been telling other posters of these forums to shut the **** up, or was that someone else?

 

Guys, it's totally off-topic... This whole thread.

There are warlords in Africa... Suicide bombers coming to israel, **** happens every single day. The world as it is sucks. I get it.

But still, we choose to play games, to entertain ourselves a bit, right? So shouldn't the discussion rather be, "how can we accomodate all play styles" instead of "NO PVP, ONLY PVP blah blah?"