Clerical and Paladin type Spells/how and why they should change

Ok, I typically will be playing a Cleric, and there are others that play a Paladin that i know of. So lets start this off with "what is a basic Paladin"

Paladin

Typical tenets of the Paladin code are as follows (though many variants exist):

• A Paladin must be of Lawful Good alignment.
• A Paladin may never willfully commit an Evil act.
• A Paladin cannot associate with any character who persistently commits acts which would cause the Paladin him/herself to Fall - notably Evil creatures.
• A Paladin must remain truthful and forthright at all times.
• A Paladin must give fair warning and due quarter to enemies.
• A Paladin holds stealth, subterfuge, attack from the rear, missile weapons and especially poison as weapons of last resort.

Cleric

clerics are versatile figures, both capable in combat and skilled in the use of divine magic. Clerics are powerful healers due to the large number of healing and curative magics available to them. With divinely-granted abilities over life or death, they are also able to repel or control undead creatures. Whether the cleric repels or controls undead is dependent on its alignment.

With that being stated, i believe the Cleric and the Paladin, should have a totally different set up on magic, since its not Arcane (magic user)
The Divine (Cleric/Paladin) comes from divinity. the spells are mostly defensive and healing, and are not drawn from an arcane pool of magic but rather the Gods, Demi-Gods, Faith/divine pool.
A divine character like the two there should have a different magic pool set, with rules based on how the character acts (alignment/virtue)
So the point is that even in plate armor a "Divine" should have no negatives from the armor they wear. Whatever spells they have (since we have them already) should be cast without penalties. lets go over some "Divine Spells" for those that say it would be over powered.
Heal Self, Heal Other, Cure Poison, Resurrect, and buffs - Defensive
Holy Light (light ray) the power to Turn undead so many times per level (skill) Which doesn't necessarily kill off all undead chasing you (they can run away for a short period of time or you may not be able to kill off all of them chasing you ) again based on (experience) skill. * I dont expect a Lich to crumple on the ground just cause im a Cleric with turn undead.
Now if we want to mix that with other skills then all the rules should apply casting penalties and eating up of mana.

Ok now for what needs to be done to "keep the faith" Divine mana.
Each town should have some kind of temple or something that the cleric/ paladin needs to make an offering too (for those that played UO, Chivalry magic) to keep up their mana pool. So in order to play these type characters, you have to sacrifice. Wealth etc.. and pray to whatever divinity you pray too.

Just my thought on Clerics and Paladins.

 

Well I am not certain if they would implement Chivalry/cleric spells into the mix, but I do like the Idea. You might be able to Make a Paladin or a Cleric out of the existing magic tree's. I know its not perfect but if you do not get your wish for a holy pool of magic, then you might fall back on to plan b. I really like the Idea of having directly opposed alignments in game. It makes for good battles and good role play!

*Ahhh, a clean and righteous paladin eh, he will make a fine dinner indeed!* Muhahaha!

 

I hope to see none of this.

I'm not opposed to some kind of virtue bases skills, but it shouldn't be "be good to win" or worse "be evil to win."

If there's some kind of factioning or system where you can walk the path of say true, love, or courage with certain benefits, I would see this...but hard choices should make it impossible to walk all three or it would be a boring game with no real conflict.

 

Can I ask what you are trying to "win". Many People like to role play their characters, it may be boring to you, but you do not have to play it.

 

I hope people play Paladins like this:



This is from The Gamers: Dorkness Rising, it's real good

 

lol ive watched that befoe i wont be playing like that!

 

Exactly. Let people RP away.

Don't mess with game mechanics, unless it really makes sense in the scheme of SotA's virtue system - which I see as being very different than this.

 

... why start this discussion in dev+ only to start the same discussion in public at the same time?

 

Level 100 War-Cleric

 

Well I'm glad that you dev+ people can have discussion with us non-dev+ folks, to me you all are kinda of like congressman or representatives (to the affect that in some way you can better communicate our thoughts to the devs).

 

I don't know about that. heh Dev+ has the benefit of a more focused discussion since it's a smaller crowd but that's about it. I used to post my ideas there but now I prefer the public areas since I'm looking for feedback. But posting the exact same post in both at the same time seems odd to me.

That said.. I'll make the same general argument here as I did there. The notion of 'divine' magic is not supported by existing lore. Britannia has never had deities. SI had the serpents of order, chaos and balance but their direct influence was brief and there's little or nothing in SI to suggest they ever granted powers. Magic has required reagents since Ultima IV and still does in SotA.

There's nothing we know of in the SotA world to justify it. Even the Titans (BotA spoiler) are really just avatars with some fancy toys.

 

Why question me at all? just to ease your mind alot of people dont have Dev+ and normally up until this point most of the issues arise in other forums besides Dev+, but fortunately here its not as bad as it is there! heres a question for you why are you answering both threads?
Too all you nay sayers if you dont like the idea by all means say "i dont like it" but to harp on the whole thing is a bit ridiculous!

{edited it to keep it from being locked!}

 

I think on some issues, all should be involved, coming from no dev, to dev+ , i believe some issues should be brought up with the general public! if it doesnt give away game stuff we shoudnt be talking about!
There is a huge difference between the Dev + people and the gen public people (which i think you hit the nail right on the head), but i thought this was a good discussion to see what both sides would think of it! this game is not only for the Dev+! all of our decisions should be looked at! On top of all that, this was my post so i can do whatever i want with it! I got your backs non dev+, i just cant tell you everything!

 

I brought up the point in both threads for the benefit of folks in both discussions could see both sides. There's no need to be so defensive about it. As it is there's very little point in starting the exact same thread in two places at the same time. I asked because it didn't make sense. Dev+ folks don't just hide away in the Dev+ area. If you want the opinions of both.. just putting in general public will get you that.

Not sure I want to know where the "not only for the rich" comment comes from and as for alliances.. that's just plain outright false. You know how many times primerib has replied to one of my ideas saying "I see no value in this at all". There is no conspiracy here. We just happen to agree divine magic is out of place in New Britannia. That isn't even a commentary on whether or not it's a good idea otherwise.

And nobody here said it was a problem to post in both sections. All I did was ask why.

 

I wasn't connecting Prime rib with you #1 , Dev + is expensive and not all can afford it, and yes i think the devs look more at the Dev+ forums more than anything else, and in my eyes that really isnt fair. I was lucky i could come up with enough money to add my thoughts in dev+ (which was probably an irresponsible decision) but it is what it is! I try to keep tame discussions there. i can see why there may be some static between the two levels, and i understand the concern of the gen public.
I was one of them.

If i ever post in both the Dev + and no Dev access, its because I think the the others should have there say as well instead of Us Dev+ people (making decisions without the gen public's input!) That is why i did that.
I wish people would stick to the subject of the OP! How many times was the one in Dev+ hijacked? Now this one is falling to the same! I know i take full responsibility for feeding it but the original post had nothing to do with where we are at now!

 

Sounds a lot like making a connection.

How many times was the other post hijacked? Reasons why or why not stem from the OP.. and "why not" is not hijacking a post.. neither is defending "why not".

I expect no less from you or anyone else when I start a thread. Simply "I don't like it" is wholly unhelpful. If you don't think it fits in the game for lore or otherwise.. say so and please explain why. Either I can rebut it or I can't. We go back and forth and when we're done.. there it is. Let the devs decide.. and on that note the Dev+ people decide nothing. We occasionally help narrow the focus on a topic before it his the public.. that is all. This is one of the reasons I stopped posting my ideas in Dev+.

I understand you want to talk about your idea.. nothing is stopping you but that doesn't mean everyone's going to agree.. move forward anyway if that's what you want. I have no other big issues apart from the lore. Now I am only responding to you.

 

(the other forum was hijacked 2 times before i deleted it) Yeah i can see where that may have been taken by connecting you and him sorry about that. . In the Dev+ my thread went from suggestions to "i thought you were going to be evil" and the various other off topics comments. I accept you may not like it, i really do, but im forced not to play my type of character, so i will adjust, as i always have. Even in PVP i had to adjust ( you know how avid i am about that) I met halfway. Wht you have conceived from the, story as titans etc,, could be looked upon as Gods.

 

So i guess a better way to put it is why cant there be Divine magic. Clerics, Pallys? Maby as an avatar im a minister (in RL)? and i want to spread the word of God, but i want to wear armor and beat the bad guy down? Then turn to the people and say "this is why you shouldn't sin" lol (kind of a cleric/pally isnt it)
I was really not trying t offend anyone here by saying that! just lightening things up so we can move on.

 

Well.. that sounds like a segway to moving on so.. moving on.

I will throw out a big IF here.. since there is still a level of mystery out the titans and they are most certainly revered.. and the impression I had is the common folk do not know their origins. It would not be unreasonable for clerical/paladin types to hold them in very high regard shall we say. We all don't know the full extent of what they can actually do. So you could probably make a case of.. simulated divinity or something along those lines.

I would remain skeptical but that's a potential path.

I would really like to see the void serpents having an influence but probably not going to happen.. there would be a better case for you there.

Of course for simply RPing your character you could just say screw it I know a deity so bite me. I've got no issue with that.

But you also want to address the balance concerns of effective healing magic while in combat.

 

What ever happens, Know that I am evil, and will go out of my way to smite anyone opposing my will...! Muhahahahaha..*cough*....Muhhahahahah!