The current state of PVP?

Nice to meet you @HogwinHD.

So, combat is reliant on XP/Skill distribution and deck creation? Pre-combat strategy does take skill and I truly enjoy it, but it's not the skill I was exactly referring to.

Even a year and a half ago, combat was heavily reliant on a players level. In fact, player level use to heavily modify damage making level disparity even more of an issue.

What I was referring to is player skill in combat. I'm not saying it doesn't take player skill, but it's less reliant on player skill than it once was.

Here is a fight between a lvl 80 & lvl 90.


Notice the player stacking like crazy while focusing on his opponent in this arena full of obstacles. He is making quick decisions that are crucial to his success. His thoughts were, "Should I stack to consume less focus and deal more damage?", "Do I need to use what I got?", "Should I combo?", "Should I stack combos?", "Am I better off leaving two glyphs separate rather than combining them?" At times you may have needed multiple expensive Healing Touch vs one cheap more effective Healing Touch.

Stacking was more beneficial to combat making it a heavily used game mechanic. It was a challenge and it took a bit more coordination. However, many players felt they couldn't compete under such conditions. Even when locked glyphs were introduced, primarily the anti-PvP population didn't want PvP'ers to have any benefit in stacking (or any benefits at all). Now we are left with little to no benefit in stacking; except for weaving spells (comboing).

 

Explain to me how you came to the conclusion that the anti-PvP crowd had anything to do with this?

It was changed because it gave people with shuffling decks too large of an advantage over those who lock their decks on top of the cooldowns they had to deal with. When one method of play overshadows the rest, you need to adjust the overall design. Eventually, they'll make changes that a lot of people will cry over when they'll start working on making non-magic builds relevant.

This "us vs them" attitude needs to stop.

 

It's clear that locked decks require less skill. The developers even went so far as to call that "Dallas Mode" as he famously said that's all he could handle. So the change wasn't to balance it, the change was to reduce pvp down to the lowest common denominator - which is less player skill and more PVE grinding to determine success.

I wouldn't say that it was "anti-pvpers" that did this, I would say that it was "anti-player skill" that did this. There are people that like pvp but prefer a character skill driven environment because that makes up for their lack of player skill. Why the developers sanctioned this change is beyond me, I don't assume to know their motives. But the end result is clearly that pvp takes far less skill to perform than it would if stacking were more powerful.

 

They should have made it so that there was a chance for fizzle and even backfire if you held a large stack too long instead of nerfing it!

Mmm risk vs reward

/Duck /Vanish

 

I like that idea, a lot.

 

Notice I said, "primarily the anti-PvP population." There were PvP oriented players that disliked stacking glyphs as well. However, by the same token, there were non-PvP players that enjoyed it as well.

There is clearly a divide in the player-base concerning these issues. It's a fact we have to deal with.

Well, yes. Of course! And that is my point. They dumbed down the system.

You shouldn't be asking why they got rid of the benefits of stacking, but why they introduced locked glyphs.

Stacking decks took more player skill than simply mashing buttons and, as I said, people complained if they couldn't compete. It was primarily non-pvp oriented players that wanted to simplify the combat system. I didn't come to this conclusion, it's the way it is.

 

That would have been a great idea! Where were you 18 months ago when they introduced locked glyphs? =P

 

I was probably swimming up for air, taking a breather. One can only fight the fight for so long here on the forums.

 

While not perfect as barons first post shows. I agree. More people are participating in pvp then before .
I find level dif being a factor is greatly exaggerated and devk style, draw luck and player skill is so significantly more important.
Open pvp adds nice excitement factor to whats normally a boring ass grind.

Im enjoying it. Still needs lots of love but so does everything.

Edit ( exp total and level vs level only seems to really matter in a perectly fair 1v1 duel. Ignoring all the fun variables tjat make open pvp good. )

 

Also currently. Unless your going up against the couple crazy high end players atm.. 80 in main skills is that point that kinda closes the gap between you and someone with multiple gms. Especilly in a group vs group factor. So it only takes a couple days and you can be very relevent in the current pvp world.

 

But that's not inherently a PvP exclusive thing. So if that's your thesis then the discussion between PvP and PvE shouldn't even exist.

So why even make mention of it?

Just say "A lot of people did X" instead of labeling them as if you were trying to get "us PvPers" to rally behind your statement.

I'm saying supporting the segregation isn't the way to do it. It's okay to have some players who only do a specific activity and another who do another exclusively... the thing is that, if there's a divide, then there's a design flaw.

 

@Gix: You are de-railing this thread turning it into a discussion about the current divide in population. That is not what this thread is about. Please create your own thread if you want to discuss the divide.

 

What up Bambino!

Some things that may not have been mentioned here,

Locking skills draw more of your focus than having them unlocked so the less skill you have locked the more focus youll have.
PVP is alright, needs lots of improvements. Still no one wears thier best stuff out for fear that the Oracle may take it upon death, so theres really no need to PVP actually yet, You know me i would love full loot! At least i could get some gold from it if not use it myself. We all know full loot will never happen. thats another arguement.

You did notice that Gustball became something ( you can actually buy or make your own gustball field) i believe theres one in the add on store for the taking. (I bring that up cause as far as i know you invented it. I could be worng, but im pretty sure you did)

Anyhow its good to have you back man!

 

Definitely worth noting.

Yup, yup... at this point it seems like a pipe dream.

What!? No way! I'll check it out. And, yes, I did invent it. With help from good people of course. I am actually writing a story about the inception of Gustball that I may enter into the contest.

 

Then express yourself without discriminating an entire group of people by blaming them for your displeasure of the current PvP system.

Yes, it takes more skill to fully utilize a shuffling deck but having an alternative option that allows you to pay more attention to the center of the screen definitely has merits. Because of this, I don't believe one way is objectively "better" than the other until you factor in that people HAD to play in shuffling mode to get the stacking bonuses that was CLEARLY more statistically advantageous over the other.

It was no longer a matter of preference but a matter of numbers; hence the balancing.

 

How about you don't tell me how to interpret things. Not once did I discriminate, I called it for what it was.

Were you around then? You don't realize how much of the PvP population loved the system that was torn away from them. However, that is not a plausible answer for you since I can't provide numbers to you. Quit focusing on why stacking benefits were removed and focus on why locked glyphs were introduced.

You said that locked glyphs were "an alternative option that allows you to pay more attention to the center of the screen definitely has merits." This was part of the challenge. It's not something you learned to do overnight. It was not an alternative, it was a complete take over in favor of button mashing.

 

Ok so to mention a thing as always try it you might like it. If you haven't tried the system enough to give current feed back on it then imo it devalues the feedback. Sure it's hard to adjust to changes and changes aren't always done the way they should. I say get in there and then talk about it. Combat has changed. It is more complex imo now. And it isn't always us against them. Some people support every system being fun. You may have to lock a buff now or something else. When I'm playing a healer for a group to kill the troll, dragon or other bosses, I lock heals for sure. In PvP if you get in there Bambino instead of focusing on what was lost try the system and report back. I'd love to hear your feedback.

 

I think my feedback is very relevant considering the amount if time and dedication I put into this game. When I played, I tested every aspect of combat to death for multiple releases. Granted, I have criticized folks in the past for making commentary without experiencing it first hand.

There is a reason why interest was lost. I prayed for something to keep breathing life into PvP, but it never happened. I feel like the same thing is going to happen all over again based on the responses I've gotten so far. If I am going to dedicate my time and effort again, I want to have something to look forward to.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the core system, the essence of the way you attack other players (not considering skills/buffs/resistances) has not changed.

I understand that the combat system has changed, and the consensus says for the better, but that doesn't necessarily mean that PvP has gotten better.

 

Personally i feel that PVP has gotten better since the last time you played, there is just new additions to it on what works against what, there are resistances now on armor weapons and stuff so its always good to have an extra skill up your sleeve to pull out and hit that one guy that uses one type of skill. Hit me up in the game when you see me on and we can run around. Im definitely not the best PVPr out there but i could show you some of the new things in the game.

 

My experience as a noob in PvP has been less flat than others are making it out to be.

I have 80 in my attack spells, and the damage numbers are comparable, but the fact is you're still beating on someone with 2x+ your HP, likely with innates to make it last longer. Group PvP is one thing, but solo I don't think is viable until you've done a lot of PvE.

Also I PvP in my best gear, and i've gotten plenty of oracle bounties off of +6 to +8 gear, so I don't think I'm the only one. When i PvP in addon gear, i drop like a sheep in Owl's Head.

EDIT: all of that said, I am having an absolute blast PvPing. It feels kind of like pub16 UO.