The PvE/PvP Conundrum

You mean those hardcore anti-PvP guys who only want to farm shiny items? Yea, they are pretty abusive and loud on here... :/

 

No, actually it is quite relevant and on topic.
The problem is that people filter what they read through their belief system and inject subtext into what they read, making assumptions about 'what is really being said' based on their own personal bias and mental image of the person they're communicating with rather than actually reading what is written. If people are unaware of, or purposefully ignore this natural bias, and do not set it aside, and acutally read what is written there can be no effective communication.
Your reply to my quip is full of baseless accusation based on nothing other than your image of me and supposition about what I must believe.
Your image is inaccurate, and if you set it aside, we can likely have productive conversations.

 

im going to set up a new thread for the economists so you can talk economy. economy, economy! Just for you! Since we keep talking about it in here lets move that conversation to a different thread! Seems fair to me and will give the economists something to chit chat about, Make sure you add your comments on the mace thing in there and see where it goes from there! "Economy the effects"

 

Pointless effort to control the conversation simply because it's not going the way you want it.

PvP is right smack in the middle of the economy. As is PvE. This is on topic and invoked via the conversation.

 

Natural conversation does branch out into many areas, but this one has gone too far into the game Eco. Captain Jack notes that the OT is all about the fact that "PVP - Consensual Or Not - Full Looting" game style is the most popular, but is not getting the focus it needs.

 

And what is the purpose of full looting if not to partake in the economy.

 

Immersion.

 

We don't yet have full looting. This is why TA posted this topic. But you know this.

 

Exactly. Because these so-called pvp-only discussions and agendas quite often, (more often than not), cross over into things that will affect the entire game, and therefore pve/pvm/pvp-full-time/pvp-part-time/casual/etc players. ie: Everyone. In those cases, everyone's opinion is valid regardless of play style and regardless of who wants to try to control who should be "allowed" to have an opinion.

Such as the economy. Full loot will affect the economy for all. Imo, the devs have it right in the mega post and I see no reason for them to backpedal on it.

 

We have looting and that's all that matters. Full or 1 item is still relevant to looting an item and salvaging.

• Loot & Ransoms: Our initial plan is when killed by another PVP player, a random item(s) is selected from the player’s inventory (50% equipped / 50% from inventory). The dead player is given a “Player X will take Y unless you pay a ransom of Z” where Z is based on the dead player’s level and the value of the item. You get the option to let them have the item, or pay the ransom. The ransom can be paid from bank funds (and possibly Guild funds). The default for this can be set to “Yes” if a player chooses. We also think that this exchange would have a 1 hour timer till it is final, so the dead player has time to assemble funds. For group PVP, this would use the same sorting algorithms as party loot. We want to explore various options that include providing the killer a list of items to choose vs. selecting only one and/or varying the number of items based on circumstance (i.e. Blessed PVP players might be able to loot more from each other). We will have to put in checks to keep people from gaming this system by loading their inventory with worthless items or running around naked except for reagents. One possible check could be that if there is no loot of X value the loser automatically has to pay ransom.

The first highlighted statement says that depending on circumstance the number of items could vary. Who says 100% of the items is not possible.
The second highlighted statement says blessed PvP players (flagged open PvP by the Oracle) might be able to loot more. Who says 100% of the items is not possible.

Either way 1 item or 100% of the items full looting is not what matters it's "I want what I want", but you know this.

 

Thank you Ristra! That is back on topic, and exactly TA's point! Not only is the majority opinion NOT getting full loot, what they want, but they are getting a "random" item which the person gets a chance to get back!

This, is a total utter sham. Imagine if we did this with NPCs and Monsters. PvE players get one random item from their drops, and then there is a chance they would lose that too. Man there would be riots in austin.

 

The item players get from MOBs is random.(for most games but we don't know yet for SotA)

The ransom still needs more details. If it's mandatory then it's an insurance and they need to drop the ransom label. If the looter has the option to accept a payoff or keep the item then that is a ransom. It's still not an economic stimulant but it is a convience for the looter. Saves them the effort to sell the item.

 

Well, yeah, mob drops are random from a table sure... But what I am getting it as this, if an Orc dropped 3 things average. Then the Devs decided to still have it drop three things, but of those three you only get a random one of them. Total crap.

I see the positive spin you're putting on the ransom system, it is a valiant effort, however not one I can subscribe to.

Again, these all seem to be systems designed to make people with the big housing dollars happy, and not the majority of players happy as OP.

 

Mobs are going to be dropping player crafted items... There is no plan to have random item drops as other titles have done traditionally that I've heard of, beyond harvesting mobs for resources.

 

Say a mob kills Captain Jack and takes his +1 sword of infinite glass power. A mob kills Rufus and takes his daisy.

Blaquerogue comes along, kills the mob, and gets Rufus' flower. Then the mob respawns and says, naw you know what, I liked that flower, I'll pay 1 cent to get that puppy back.

Rage.

 

<-- Eternal optimist

 

Random number of items not random items.

Will MOBs drop everything they have equipped and in their packs or will there be a limited number of items.

 

Mobs will drop everything. And respawn naked. Eventually thousands of naked mobs will raid the town and loot everything. Crafters will be forced to make and donate new armor or look at guard Michael naked. This is what drives the economy.

 

Lets stop talking about the economy for now. The dev team has a plan for the economy. Did you all know they have the ability to track everything in regard to the economy with a very sophisticated software? They can see buying and selling trends, and can create charts etc. They will know all the spending habbits to the copper piece. They will know who is hoarding gold, and the gold production to sink ratio, and much much more.

So we are wasting our time talking about the economy without knowing about those tools (which they briefly mentioned in Dev+ a while back), and knowing about their economic plans.

If we had a better understanding of their idea about the Devs' economic plan, then we could discuss the economy further. From what I understand Chris Spears has a lot of knowledge of MMO economies, and he appears to be excited to see it in action. I got the impression early on that the economy will be in good hands.

For now we should be asking about their plans for the economy, rather than waste a PvP thread discussing something that really is a tangent topic, and PvP might not affect the economy as some of you think. Message Firelotus, or Chris, about the economy, and maybe they will do a dev chat or some reply on the topic. I know Chris mentioned he wanted to have an economy dev chat a long time ago. I don't know if they did it or not. If they did I missed it.

 

I actually disagree. PvP and the economy are basically the same thing. They're both about the distribution of scarce resources.

I just don't think two players fighting eachother is enough of a force to move the economy. Because this is inherently negative sum. i.e. people fighting all day ends up with stuff breaking, stuff being consumed, getting two of something I don't want and none of something I do. This leaves no incentive for PvP.

A system like this only works if there's something out there generating loot. In UO, it was the crafter / gathers I could kill for easy stuff. In some other games, there are some PvP points. In other games winning the battle gives me some valuable location where I now need to work to get resources: a mine, an xp spot, a castle to tax the local town, etc.

Individuals trading a small amount of loot where people can safely opt out simply wont drive the economy on it's own.