The PvP Enigma

Well since youll have the option of sliding that slider over to pve, you wont have to worry about pvp being in your quest area, unless RG decides hes going to take one thing and put it into pvp area so people can try it out. If the game is set up like everyones talking about you wont see PVP while in PVE. That pretty much solved that problem of somone PVE getting ganked. If you make the choice to go into PVP for one quest thats on you personally, it was already said it wasnt going to be a game changing quest! You could go on without ever having to do it!

 

Your already talking about a change of pace??? Ever thought that maybe you wont need a change of pace? If the game is that good!?

 

The funniest thing i see here is most of the people not wanting pvp or semi-pvp or just plain pve seem to already know how its gonna be with out any proof besides "Richard and his team are great!" Its funny to read these things and having people that have no clue how its gonna work, make statements like their facts! LOL no one really knows (Ristra) unless your a dev and know exactly whats going on stop talking like its all facts! I think the best thing ive heard i think, but not sure was from Darkstar or Richard saying "both pvp and pve will be equally dissapointed on the pvp/pve enigma!" Thats probably the most accurate information ive heard thus far! That came straight from the horses mouth! So that statement is a fact, you can look it up in one of the videos, im not going to do your research for you. Listening is also a good skill!

 

Again, if you claim it is fear you have no clue about people's motives and it does not get better by trying to shove it down peoples throats putting it in all caps, but it is very fitting.
And if people disagree with you, you treat them disrespectful calling it excuses and thinking they are out of touch with their motives, while you are simply out of touch with reality.

It is this typical disrespecful mentality, exactly what I do not want in an RPG and why I do not want to subject myself to PvP in that environment.
It is something typical to a PK rather than someone wanting to PvP against their equals.

Again: I play many pure PvP games but they do not have this mentality and many are in fact behaving quite sportsmanlike in those games.

As far as I am concerned I would love a game that was loose-all permadeath. This would also end the PvP discussion really quick =)

 

I made a point of bringing up the possibility of helping out allied guilds not helping out friends. There's a difference between helping out your friends and helping out a guild who is an allie.

I was just throwing out the idea about helping out an allied guild. I don't remember if that was legal in UO, but it could be something that could work. Granting the allies the orange flag against your enemies, but they will appear blue until they engage in an act of war. Either way it keeps them safe from attack until they engage in battle. However they gain the orange flag not the grey flag for the sake of allowing allies... that was the new concept I was throwing out there... in UO they would have just been flagged grey.

EDIT: Helping out your friends without a legal situation (such as a flagged criminal attackes him or your guild is at war with that guy's guild etc) then you should be flagged a criminal for illegally aiding your friend.

 

Other than the permadeath (of which I am against simply because I might not be able to game all that much, come launch), I agree with the first part of your post. Being a PvP-er or even a PK-er doesnt matter. Im not asking people to apologize about wanting to PvP, but when in forums, you can simply quit the attitude and just be normal.

Yep, UO had it working like that and it was still fun. You can still apply that model in SotA:

PvE mode: you can have it (guild warfare) as it was in Trammel
PvP mode: you can have it (guild warfare) as it was in Fellucca

 

Wouldn't you also agree that most guild wars are more likely to be civil than fighting against PKs and possibly even faction wars? You might find more made up rules to follow like no reskilling and stuff like that.

 

Oh so they did have it like that. Ok cool then. I don't think I was ever in a guild war where allies joined in, but I wasn't in many guild wars.. maybe two at the most. That's cool though. I hope that system is in SotA.

 

The Allies were Orange and our guildies were Green. Neutral were Blue, Red for Enemy guilds (including the allies of the enemy). Had some awesome RP-PVP back then. If I ever learned something is that Cove doesnt back down easily

 

Why do two teams of people go play baseball? And why would they want to do it by themselves, and not allow anyone who happens to be passing by to just join in?

Why? Because they want to. And if that is what people want to do, Portalarium should support them and develop a game mechanism to allow them to do it. Who are you to say they shouldn't do that, if that is how they wish to play THEIR game?

It's all about the degree of control people have. PvP comes in many flavors. A 1 v 1 duel is PvP under very limited and controlled circumstances. The PvP quests Garriott has hinted about, are likely also to be PvP designed to take place under limited circumstances. Arena Matches are just a step up from there, similar to a duel, but involving more people. A Guild War is similar to an Arena Match with the entire game world as the Arena, and can take place, by agreement, in OPO PvE, just as can duels and small Arena Matches.

A further advantage of a Guild War, even in Open PvP, is that if you are role playing a Good Character as opposed to a Criminal or a Murderer, a Guild War affords you the opportunity to attack other players whom you would normally not be able to attack without getting flagged as either a Criminal or a Murderer, since those participating in a Guild War are in a legal war, and not involved in criminal activity.

Each flavor of PvP gives players a chance to try PvP under different circumstances, since not everyone is ready or willing to participate in Open PvP, or if they are, by agreement, they want to be able to fight without being flagged as Criminals or Murderers. I think those are more than enough valid reasons to include the option in the game.

 

Sure you will. It just won't be Open PvP. I think duels, by consent, will be fought in OPO PvE. Arena Matches should be able to be fought in OPO PvE. Garriott's PvP quests, fought under limited controlled circumstances by the Selective Multiplayer server will be fought in OPO PvE. Guild Wars should be able to be conducted in OPO PVE.

There will be a lot of PvP in what is nominally the OPO PvE mode, but it will be PvP under controlled circumstances, by consent.

 

War is War, and a Guild War is a combat mode. By mutual agreement, two guilds can agree to anything they want, but that is between them, and shouldn't something enforced by the game. If the KGB plays Shroud of the Avatar, and becomes involved in a Guild War, there will be no quarter asked or given.

 

If it is by mutual consent, why not? That is entirely what PvP in SotA is all about. You may not like it, but Richard Garriott does, and he defines the game situations, not you, and he and Chris have both mentioned Guild Wars in connection with SotA PvP possibilities, so I suspect we will see Guild Wars in SotA.

 

I wish we could just not see each other PVP and PVE! I was under the impression that if you slide the bar over to PVP you will not see PVE and Vice versus.

 

Well, if you are in Open PvP, you will see people PvE'ing. And in PvE, by seeing people participating in PvP by consent, that allows people may not have participated PvP in other game to see it in action without having it affect them. They can then learn more about it, and with knowledge, perhaps they'll decide to try it themselves by starting slow with a duel, or a team Arena Match.

I don't think anyone will be traumatized by witnessing some PvP even if they choose not to participate.

 

I agree, but i would just like to help people out that are in a guild if they are fighting for the right reasons! I am good by heart! without having information, its hard to tell what direction this game is going in! I hope we can agree on that statement! I hope they come out and tell us how all this pvp, guild war, etc... is going to be!

WOW someone went on a moderater approval spree! lol for nothing as far as i can tell! lol
In case you the moderator is reading this i believe we are good and there is no problem as far as i can tell!

 

AHH! morning coffee and the PVP enigma thread life is just grand!

 

And if you want to help them out, then you shouldn't mind being flagged for your actions, should you?

 

No i dont mind being flagged at all but if im flagged as a criminal thats kind of messed up, In my opinion, i just wish to turn "orange" so i can fight with you, and "red" to them, but not a murderer.

 

No, you shouldn't be flagged as a criminal unless you've committed a criminal act. If there is an 'ally' status that can be defined, that simplifies things. Otherwise, we have to depend on some kind of autoflag process that would mark you as a participant in the guild war without flagging you as a criminal.

Of course, you could always join the guild, at least temporarily, and then there would be no ambiguity.