The way the deck system should work

Go find the statement by RG where he described the problems. Im not saying they dhould just listen to me but the majority of players do not prefer it and the minority voice should not win out over them

 

I am not aware of any problems with the system. Its just still in the baking phase and has not been implemented. When the Alpha release with combat comes we will get to look at it. And the team is open to "feedback" which is different than "changes". In the end, they will make the decision to keep/fix or drop the system. There WILL be people that hate it I am sure, but only if the Dev's decide its not fun will it be dropped. Otherwise I am pretty sure they will be more likely to tweak it based on feedback.

 

He was commenting on the concepts. At that time, and even today, there is no fully functional system to actually have problems with.

 

No he was playing combat and commenting on how he didnt want people to have to stare at the hotbar as much as he was doing and then he said something about color coding. Its possible we are talking about different vids

Most people dont like drastic change and they do like known quantities. This system will drive away more ppl than it attracts and go to a system they know rather than not knowing what hotkey does what. Its the same as having all the abilities on one hotbar and just changing the hotkey every round instead of changing the hotkey they change the location of the ability so tell me how does this make any sense?

If i hotkey something to #5 i want to know what i get when i hit 5. That defeats the whole purpose of having hotkeys

They allow mapping of keys so you can easily access an ability and so that you know where it is and what will happen when yu hit it. I cant ever imagine such an illogical system beig successful. Is it really worth driving away so many customers when u could just make it unique and accomplish your goals in a diferent way that makes sense?

 

Now you're just making claims that you obviously couldn't possibly have evidence for. How can you possibly know "the majority do not prefer it"?

 

Because the most recent poll had over 50% of people wanting a different system?

 

Link? The only one I can find is this: https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/f...yone-else-hate-the-proposed-card-system.3128/ where the most common response is "Not Sure" (which, I think, is a very reasonable choice given that it's novel and we haven't had a chance to play it).

 

I dont need to play to understand any kind of randomizing hotkeys is a bad idea that will break raiding if it exists to any degree. If you are so for it then explain how raiding is supposed to work. They probably havent said because its such a problem game devs are known to procrastinate and save the complicated things till last. While that is purely soeculation in this specific scenario it is not speculative that is absolute fail with raids. Other games have tried a deck system and were utter fail. Its just not possible to micromanage everything going on in a raid as well as worry about what key to hit and if it will even be the right ability

A lot of ppl that object have no problem with a dynamic system just this system and they would likely go back to regular style tried and true combat before dealing with this one

Like i said is it really worth it to create such a barrier to entry that ppl wont even play with it the way it is

 

I wouldn't trust any poll. As I said, half the people playing the demo were shocked at WASD and using the mouse for the camera. So I can't imagine that they really thought through how the combat would work.

Saying I drag my skills around to use them makes perfect sense until you think about what else the mouse is doing. Saying you hit the '8' key makes sense until you realize one hand is on the mouse and the other is on WASD.

Just like the devs didn't think jumping was such a big deal until you actually model / play a world in 3D and see that 2D movement just feels too restrictive.

It's just like the old MMO joke about wanting a pause button. From any individual person's point of view, it makes perfect sense. I'm sure their UI would be great in a turn based game, but as I start pushing decisions closer to the .25 second interval people use in real life, it's just all way too clunky.

But again, if the world disagrees with you, you make be on the cusp of some brilliant thing no one else dared to think of. So I'm rooting for them to be amazing.

 

Polls on the forum are also taken with a grain of salt because they are most often completed by the small number of people who use the forums and/or see them. For instance, I just now saw that thread for the first time, myself. However, the 198 people who have voted on there are a far cry from the 25,000 people who are pledges of SotA.

 

I know its not a scientific poll but it is a good snapshot of what some people think and with a large enough sample base you can extrapolate how the numbers would end up afterall thats how they predict elections.

I dont see why they are going balls to the wall with it though why not start out testing it via smaller windows of use like with crowd control. I think it would make a perfect CC function and maybe limited general combat use but to make it 100% always active without testing it seems like a bad idea. Hopefully they flesh it out and let testers play with it before they proceed with further implimentation and indefinately saying thats the way it will be. Theres still a chance it could be changed if it doesnt work but at some point they get to point of no return where they are too invested to change course and i worry there are those that will use it as a rally cry and support it no matter if there are obvious issues because they supported it and the beginning and dont want to be see as going back on their supported feature

 

At no point in this thread have I said "This system sounds amazing, I can see no possible problems!" You're misrepresenting me, as you've been misrepresenting facts along the way.

You can say you don't like the idea for the combat system and list your worries, this is fine and possibly constructive. But stating it's an obviously flawed idea with known problems, that the devs know this and are being completely ridiculous to follow through with it, that the majority players are against it, and assuming that if I disagree with you I must be obviously completely uncritically in favour of the idea... These aren't good ways to make your case.

I have repeatedly just stated that the problems you list aren't definite issues in the framework thus outlined. The framework allows a fair amount of flexibility, and I think it's pure speculation to say "The UI is definitely going to suck due to this system" or "This combat system is going to be flawless and fun". I think there are a lot of parameters to be played with, and that it might be possible to find a balance that avoids forcing the user to stare at the hotbar. That's my position: that this framework isn't fundamentally flawed as an idea.

As far as "how raiding is supposed to work", good question. I'm not sure what SotA has in store in terms of big raids, or if this is even on the agenda. But it certainly isn't inconceivable that it would be, and it's perfectly possible that the UI and everything else you need to keep track of is simple enough that the added cognitive load of watching what abilities are coming up will be possible, and perhaps even more engaging than in certain other MMOs. But we know so little about basic combat, let alone how raiding might be implemented, that I think it's way too soon to be claiming that raids can't possibly work with this combat system.

 

Yeah, mine was during the kickstarter. Sounds like what you are referring too was 8th month demo video. In that one everything he says is due to that combat being an early build. He didn't want anyone to think that was the final system. They literally had just added combat and RG was trying to make sure would discard what they saw and only focus on the features he was demonstrating.

If that is what you are referring too then you reaction to it is exactly why he was saying those things because that system was new and not a representation of what would be in game. If not, I would like to see the video you mention. They have spoken about combat in video only a few times, and I do not remember RG saying anything negative about their plan for combat.

 

I hardly call a 200/20,000 vote a good snapshot, especially when some people on the forums are very set in their views about things where the majority is willing to sit back and just trust the devs to do what they want to do.

As for the combat system, because this is the way they want to do it and that is a good enough reason in my eyes. They have been discussing this system for a long time and we don't really know how it's going to play out yet so saying that it's going to be a bad system that no one likes is a bit presumptuous. I personally think it's a brilliant idea which will be much more entertaining because it's new and different than what we've seen before. For me, it's like Magic: The Gathering in RPG format. I'm sure it will need tweaking along the way, but I have faith that Richard and Co. know what they are doing.

 

I have to say, I'm not a fan of the deck system and what appears to be a random number generation in dealing them out whilst in combat. My issue is probably more the randomness than the cards themselves, my huge concern is that it will destroy the fast flow of PvP/Combat, i don't like the idea of not being able to bind particular skills/actions/spells to my keyboard. I am also concerned that if I can bind somthing to a key, one second it will do one thing and in another it will do something else.

I had my rant about all this a while back and have since decided not to talk about it until March. I did ask Darkstarr in IRC the other day for some comfort that PvP would be taken into consideration with regards to how it will all work........the answer is that it will be.

I'm waiting for March, I hope that my gut instinct is wrong.............if it's not, I feel that March could be a very noisy month (not just from me).

I'm just keeping my fingers crossed that it works.

 

First off i never mis represented any of you because i never specifcially refered to anyone and second i never said 200 people was enough numbers to extrapolate further i said when they reach a certain number of ppl they CAN extrapolate further so if anyone is being mis represented its me because i never said what you guys are saying i did

I dont need to know how the system will flesh out to know i dont like it because i dont like the idea of havig my hotkeys or abilities moved around its esentially remapping your abilities and throwing random ones at u based on a handful you specify you want to be hit with. This we all know is how it works and it doesnt need any firther development as they have stated their intentions of having random abilities pop into your bar in different places.

I dont see the logic in giving someone an ability only to take it away when they need it and then have to worry about what hotkey the ability i do want to use is on. Again we all know this is not speculation as they jave said thats how they want it to work

You can say how much flexibility is in the system but to me it doesnt matter because the underlying concept is still random abilities in random slots if u said the parameters are so tweakable that you can turn it off or negate it to a degree its not causig me to constantly watch my bar with tje hopes i get the right ability then i can support that.

I dont have to see a finished combat system when i think its a flawed fundamental concept

And yes i know nobody has done a system exactly like this before but people have tried this random card deck approach before abd since the fundamental concepts are the same it doesnt need to be fully fleshed out to see the logical conclusion of a concept brought to a conclusion

I never stated you claimed the system was perfect or demand you specifically explain how raids will work i was using a generalization to ask anyone who supports it to explain how they expect it to function

 

Can you please tell me what poll you're even referring to? Like I said, I was only able to find one where nearly 50% said they were "Not Sure" how they felt about the combat system.

 

And sorry if I thought you were referring to some one in this thread. Since no one has taken the stance of the strawman you set up, I don't know what point you were trying to get across.

 

That would be the one.

 

Oh. So by "Over 50%", you mean "under 30%".