Why full loot? -- (Dev) Replied

@lordrex

This thread was getting WAY out of hand. I am most certainly just as much to blame as anyone. I think the only thing most of us here can agree on is our mutual respect for Firelotus so if she asks us to do something (especially something as easy not swearing like a bunch of sailors or using a single word that happens to be rubbing some people the wrong way) I think we can at least try to accommodate.

 

PvErs even tho I know "carebears" who PvP'd, but would do so normally in very large groups where the chance someone you're buddy with can't loot your body is slim. So really PvEr isn't exactly an accurate term.

I'll try to make this analogy without getting banned or flamed. In college I had a friend who was gay and she hated the term f@g so we would always say lame around her instead. And then one day I told her that all we're doing instead of using that world is replacing it with lame and by doing so are instead just calling gay people lame. Neither word was ever meant to be derogatory even though I obviously won't sit here and condone its use on a public message board.

The point is this, half the english dictionary would be banned from use on public boards if every time a perceived insult had it's jargon "banned". Just like you can't say noob in half the games these days. Really people? Grow up, don't take everything to heart and don't be so paranoid that every post is a personal attack. If we can't regulate something as simple as this ourselves then the devs shouldn't listen to any of our ideas.

 

@ND3G: i disagree. to imply that even addressing the ******** school of thought is against the rules alienates me as a PK. a vocal minority of people who want to alienate me have made such a fuss that i do not know what language to use to speak.

As a mature adult who has not only spent thousands of dollars on everything that richard has made since 1990, but has participated in the gaming industry as a developer in his own right, i think i should be able to talk about the pk vs. ******** philosophy without having to dance around the issue.

what term should i use then? when someone says "PK" it is obvious what they mean. should i say "i am referring to the school of thought in direct opposition to that which the PK subscribes to with respect to MMO's"? Care Bear is used as a term because in the cartoon the care bears say "everyone has to play nice all the time". there is nothing derogatory about it.

To suggest that discussing the care bear philosophy is inappropriate is very George Orwell 1984 thought police-ish.

(all that said i feel like such a kid again... haven't argued about video games like this in 10 years. woot.)

 

@rshultzy - "********" isn't an accurate term either. I'd argue that PvE is fine, or what do you call a mostly PvP player who crafts? I call them a PvP player.

@lordrex - see my response to your thread. PvE player is perfectly accurate, as PvP player is for your mob.

 

We are all here because we have one thing in common. We liked the creations of R.G.

UO was a popular experience. We trust RG and his team. Can we wait a bit before debate? It is clear that SotA will reflect the thinking of RG a SAND BOX RPG. If we ask for limitations on items such as loot and pvp we will undermine the team Portalarium.

We must trust. Even if one or two people troll the forum, I do not think it will help R.G. Team.

Anyway, let's wise. I understand that some people are excited, I am too, but the forum section is made very depressed. Some people just should restreinde their intervention. It becomes unpleasant.

 

@lordrex:

Haha, I agree with you. I think it's really silly that a word like "********" is forbidden. I am discussing the word here Sirinan, this is not an attack. I just wanted to make that clear. BUT, I can respect firelotus' decision to not use the word anymore.

However, I could say that I do not feel "Player Killer" is an appropriate term because I am not killing players. I think we see where this is going. But, I'm not interested in restricting the usable vocabulary. These are usually 4 letter words and have far more negative connotations, but I'm not going to ask that they be restricted either. I just find it a bit hypocritical that Sirinan is so offended by the word "********".

Anyway, I am still hoping that we at least get full loot in the "PVP" mode.

 

@Sirinan , @Abydos , @ND3G ,

I guess my whole point is we should be able to discuss without getting mad, and definitely without having someone police us with what words we can and cannot use based on some weird website that is crowd sourced for humor.

I just want to promote that we should have the ability to role play all roles in a role playing game. i don't want half of all the roles to be disabled because some players don't like competition in a multi-player game simply because they don't like it. If they want a sandbox, give it to them, but do not make that the norm. that is all i am saying. we should have the ability to play everything from lawful good to chaotic evil.

I should be able to play an mmorpg without having to move next to the siege perilous server and fork over money for something RG made in 1996. I should also be able to talk about it without the thought police showing up.

by the way, you guys SERIOUSLY dont know what youre missing. how often have you had to recall out of a fight to wipe the sweat off your mouse? humans are SO much better than AI. check out my other thread. see what you think.

 

@lordrex:

Im whit u Lordrex,

You have good points, but do not judge people plz.

 

@lordrex, I agree completely except for:

"I should also be able to talk about it without the thought police showing up."

Which I imagine is about the ******** reference? It's inflammatory. I'm not the only one to think so. It's not difficult to use PvE instead. It's all about keeping the forum a reasonably pleasant place to post without having PvE vs PvP flamewars turning it into a trainwreck.

I *may* try PvP at some point. If the PvP people here don't convince me otherwise with their behaviour.

 

I think we made it about a a page and a bit before this thread went off on a tangent again. I think that might be a new record! Everyone give themselves a pat on the back.

 

ok thats cool. PVE it is. no carebears, no thundercats, no he-man, no GI-joe.

PVE PVE PVE. there. it's in my brain.

by the way, when did it change from PVM (monster) ro PVE? just curious.

and for historic reasons, at what point did ******** become derogatory? like... youre really not trolling right?

oh, and i heard you cannot call people a noob in some games too? is that for real too?

I'm in my 30's man you guys need to keep me up to date.

 

@Sirinan, "For those who want loot, is it really your actual opponents gear you are after, or would some other form of reward suffice? "

Speaking as an Anti_PK, full loot also serves to take the PK out of action for a while, at least until he re-equips. I purpose is to eliminate the PK as a threat. I can't do that permanently, but if the murderer has neither weapons nor armor, they are not a threat for a longer period of time than if they resurrect with all their stuff, ready to go again instantly. So while there are economic reasons for full loot, there are also tactical reasons as well.

 

Portalarium has clearly stated that they are interested in creating a game where level progression runs along a very linear and shallow slope. It is not a fore-long conclusion that a level 10 character will defeat a level 2 character.

For me this strongly suggests that your skill in battle and not your hp or the gear you are wearing will be the deciding factor. Couple that with the fact that RG has never placed much stock in gear collecting in his past games and I think it is a pretty safe bet to expect SotA to feature mostly generic and easily replaceable gear that does not provide one player a huge stat advantage over another (just like UO).

 

@lordrex ~ Actually, my exact wording was:

"Also, the derogatory use of the word ?********? stops here and now."

You will note the word "derogatory" there. I don't care if you are calling each other "Daffodil". What I care about is people were using a term to insult one another, and that will not stand, whatever the noun of choice is.

Nice try attempting to Troll a CM though... +1 for brass, but also a warning for being combative. I'm watching.

 

pwn'ed.

 

Some one posted this article in a different thread and I think it is well worth reading. It is about first person shooters but I think it has a lot of insight that can be directly applied to the current state of MMOs as well.

http://www.pcgamer.com/2013/03/13/call-of-duty-red-orchestra-2-interview/2/

 

yeah, i've not played an fps since about 1999 but the ideas are clearly applicable. here's a similar idea, on the mmo subject, but in the video format so us lazy state-of-video-games-discussers don't have to do any reading! the state of state-of-video-games-discussers, eh. it weren't like this in my day

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvK8fua6O64

 

Smack posted this in a crafting thread regarding looting and I thought it was worth mentioning here.

He wrote: "I would hope also that the virtue system plays a role in looting of corpses through PK. You had a choice to kill, and you did. You now have a choice to loot or not......I only bring this up because of the Gypsy ring quest he?s talked about frequently and is in the game play demo. You kill the wolves, and you are offered a wedding ring from the gypsy NPC. The decision to accept or reject the ring will have consequences for you later in the game ? good or bad, we don?t know. I would like the same principle applied to looting, as I?m a big proponent of virtues being ingrained in this game?s DNA."

I think this is a really good idea. Even though I strongly believe the players should have the option to loot a defeated player the game should keep track of this just as killing another player is tracked.

Looting should not automatically be considered as a dubious act in all cases though.
For example, you should be able to loot a party member or guild mates stuff to keep it safe from others without negatively effecting your standing in the eight virtues. Likewise, you should not be penalized for looting an enemy that you or your guild are officially at war with.

 

Just wanted to toss in my 2 cents on this- I don't have a problem with full loot, however I agree with the idea of certain items (such as kickstarter rewards) being unlootable. And, I agree with the above sentiment that choosing to loot or not has some kind of impact on who your character is.

Also, I think there should be a way to bind other items, making them effectively unlootable as well. Perhaps a scroll, rune, etc, something a crafting profession can create but not very easily. It should be farely difficult to come by.

 

@ND3G I agree with you, great idea Smack! And also, yes to a scroll of binding or some other such mechanic.

@Lukashka nice pic btw