pvp vs not flagged

I thought we moved past 1 quote mass posts.. but okay.

Is it a PVP killer?
How many people were sitting out of PVP because of this feature? Do you have any in game experiances to support this thought?
From what i've sen in my own guild, its cause only an increase in PVP. We flash, spur of the moment fight all the time. Something we wouldn't do if it ment having to run out to the oracle. We then have more people flagged from going blue to red in the zone, triggering other people to do the same = more pvp.

What?
I simply asked him why they were putting themselvs in vulnerable situations if they were both flagged. How is that different then a PVP'er jumping them, if they are sitting at low health farming liches. If they wanted to avoid the fear of being jumped on by blue players ( someone equally easier to see in the nearby players menue) they should have been in a PVP zone. Otherwise , for farming for BETTER EXP WITH THE FLAG boost, the risk is the fact PVE'ers can getcha.
If you cant handle that, then dont grind in PVE zones. ( no where did i say de-flag for grinding).

Why were you in a vulnerable position with a bunch of liches on you?
Which kind of silly question is this?!
seems pretty common sense to me, that if you running flagged farming liches.. you should be aware of your surroundings is my point. including the other players in the zone.

If you dont like the thought of that mechanic, then simply farm in PVP zones when your flagged.
Personally i think its in play for numerous reasons, and even more coming. And so far ive seen it only benifit the people actually pvping, not dampen them. Despite the people claiming otherwise ( some who have never even had it happen to them)

IMO i repeat agian, the best argument here was that it puts the player at a disadvantage towards the flagged guy. A simply forcing of refreshing of the combat bar on initiation of PVP, would balance that.
But frankly, i and many others enjoy the mechanic.

 

I do consider it as one, yes.

Sure, no risk, no accountability. Zerg some guys, kill someone low on health and then run to mama oracle and de-flag.

Because thats a "normal thing" to do. Who de-flags for PvE? This would be the first game where this could make sense.

The difference is that you can see incoming, flagged players, stop what you are doing, prepare and lay an ambush for example. The chances that you run into the attacker again and can retaliate, are also relativly high whereas with some PvE guys who jump at an opportunity to backstab someone are NOT.

May i ask you which PvP games you played so far.

This will basicly lead to people either only flagging at a high char level in "endgame" or running around in zergs. Really not "my cup of icetea".

Giving the majority of game population the opportunity to first strike every PvPler will not create but destroy the little bit PvP this game has anyway. Thats inherently BS. Either you commit to "pvp" or not.

And to be honest, this discussions become tiresome. In a true PvP game we wouldnt need to have those. Lets agree to disagree.

 

I am not the most well spoken/written person by any stretch.

having a disadvantage or advantage in dynamic situation has no bearing on its essential fairness. if you see my dumbass tryin to sneak about its pretty safe to assume that I am about to do something stupid and you should plan accordingly... you know I could jump in and attack at anytime and you have the ability to plan for that eventuality. that's fair to me.

that being said there should be a min time I am lock as flagged so I cant run to safety. 30 min to 1 hour sounds about right. perhaps even a +drop rate penalty for attacking while unflagged or a multiplier on ransom I don't know. but I think the tactic is a good one and adds to immersive dynamic game play.

a person is out playing pve and they see some flagged guildmates allies in a tight fight or just see they need help in chat the ability to go right there and join the fight is much better than making a person have to stop at another couple of loading screens and be to late to join the fun/fight. yes it can and will be abused but I think it adds for more fun in the long run than takes away.

the only real fairness I am worried about in pvp is basic class balance. heavy armor vs light. ranged vs melee. and the ability to avoid being spawn and respawn camped.

 

This change only has an impact on one form of PvP. Open PvP. Flagging open PvP is assuming the risk of getting attacked by anyone.
It's very fitting. Don't like it, don't open PvP, easy enough.

The moral system NEEDS to be involved with the act of attacking someone while not flagged. THIS IS A MUST

The next step is to acknowledge the fact that open PvP doesn't need more and it's time to move on to making other forms of PvP. Meaningful PvP. THIS IS ALSO A MUST

 

Yeah, but only if "the other one" is frickin attackable too, otherwise its NOT OPEN PVP.

Sorry for shouting.

 

You get xp bonus, they get protection from the first strike. If you do not like it, go into PvP zone, everyone is attackable there (and everyone gets xp bonus).

 

Lol i like the implicatiom that we flag and run away? After i clearly explain that it causes a lot of flash fighting, turning an exp run into a fun pvp day. In no way do we jump in then run to th oracle.
Even explained how this has turned a lot of people ON to pvp, that spur of the moment flagging, and id guess its added more people then its kept out.
(This mechanics been in play forever, willing to bet its not the deciding factor for anyone * not pvping* currently. )

And if you took the time to read, and not nit-pick quote parts to make your post seem better, you would see i am pretty against the people who do that.

Anyways, this thread turned useless as expected.
To summarize
- the mechanic isnt as bad as people claim and will be even more important once pvp zones are better, as a way to counter pvpers farming in pve spots ( avoiding a lot of risk )
- highly reccomend they do a combat bar refreash when hitting onward. Thats the most *broken* part of the mechanic.
And lastly,
The most active people in pvp forums, and about pvp ideas, usually dont pvp. This should change. Even if you hate the mechanics of something, you should test them out instead of going off what you read. Otherwise the discussions should be between the people who do.
And also the major pvp pushers have pretty much left or given up. I hope that changes and they come back and put in good, real feedback.


And armar, i ddnt even bother quoteing as your repeating stuff thats already been answered.

 

Just being the loudest one here doesn't make you right. There are better ways to insta flag for pvp. Anyone who thinks the 10% bonus is worth it is deluded, or always so OP they don't have to worry about it. You don't speak for everyone here. Have you even ever used this way to flag pvp? It's clumbsy and buggy.

 

SotA is not Open PvP the player is and open PvP is a path that must be chosen. Very important distinction.

 

"Protection from the first strike"??? Why do they get "a protection from the first strike" and what did they do to get it. Anyone asking the devs for this IMO never ever played any real PvP games.

Worst game mechanic i EVER encountered in an MMORPG with, err, consensual PvP.

How many 3 skull PvP zones are there exactly?

// Armar

 

If I remember correctly, one must ask to have protections removed. All protections now.

 

Well PvP in SotA is consensual, it is still very early implementation of many systems in the game. Everyone gets protection from PvP by default, if you remove Oracle protection it means you are not protected from PvP. Those who have protection of Oracle are, well, protected. It is your choice to remove the protection. As a bonus, you get some extra xp, but beware, others might be able to attack you, you do not have protection of Oracle. It really is not that complicated system so it should be easy understand.

You can fight anyone in PvP zone. I am pretty sure that by design only higher level zones are PvP, it is not really intention of the devs for low level players to be part of open PvP, though you can flag if you wish to. However there are places in PvP arenas where are3/4 skull level mobs, but usually there are 5 tier mobs with especially obsidians and Flash flayers (Flash flayers are not that hard to kill and they cannot move). Higher level resources are bonus, I do not believe yo uare after lower level resources.

You want fair fights? There is duel or arenas. Buit there is no bonus xp for dueling as far as I know.
You want to be able to attack everyone? There are PvP zones. But not everyoen wwill come there.
You want to experience PvP everywhere and get bonus xp? Visit Oracle and remove protection. But beware anyone can attack you (though when they do you can fight back, and you can attack other PvPers everywhere.

PS: One of main features of SotA is that it is one world for everyone so there is no PvP and PvE separate server. That has many advantages but some disadvantages.

 

I don't get why marginal % bonuses would be worth it unless someone is consciously min/maxing their output for their time, rather than just having fun playing.

 

Still no explanation why PvP- players are allowed to first-strike PvP+ players.

It seems like this. Another hint that the game mechanics are broken. I dont plan on grinding up to over 1000hp, probably a similiar focus amount and bringin up most of the combat schools close to GM before i finally can "live a normal MMORPG PvP" life. The in-game content is by far not enough to have me grind to top level so i can participate in PvP. It would be also the first MMO i ever played which forces a player to level up for months (i would guess) before he can actually do what he is playing the game for.

Not neccessarily. But beeing attackable while not beeing able to attack is just plain bonkers too me. Then please tell me where this game mechanics supports accountability or "consequences for your actions". It doesnt, it does exactly the opposite. And i dont care if this "feature" helps some players to use the PvP+ switch just to turn it back off after a short time without having to face any consequences for their actions. Not my cup of dwarfen wine at all.

I rather like to play on a server where everyone can attack anyone else or at least people who dont flag cant attack you. The only advantage i see is that the producer might have a higher chance of having enough of a server population at launch time and doesnt need to setup a second server. For me as a player, which kind of advantages does this have? None?! Tell me one, only one.

// Armar

 

Everyone can do this in friends mode and thats an argument for PvP+ and PvP- servers.

 

Most PvE players here wouldn't touch the PvP flag with a ten foot pole. The one attacking you would most likely be a PvP player who happened to be unflagged at the time. The PvP population is quite small btw.

A separate PvP server isn't going to happen - it's been brought up a few times and the answer has always been that separating the PvE and PvP worlds is a bad idea.

PvP is an important facet of the SOTA diamond but the game itself is not primarily about PvP. I agree about the need for choice, risk and consequence and this has to cascade from the the plot and storyline to the PvE and PvP sides of the game.

There are at least four major groups of players here and the gameplay is all intertwined (less so for offline play). In short, you can't treat this as a pure PvP game - it isn't going to work.

 

That was the argument many in this thread were making for allowing unflagged players to attack a flagged player without risk. I guess the "don't worry about it and just have fun playing" argument can be applied to any feedback about this game.

 

So far no one attacked me. Neither in town, nor while grinding. But due to my timezone i am lot on during total off-peak times...

I know, i still think they had a chance, a chance no other game has due to the U legacy, to get tons of grown ex. UO guilds plus some others but they had been afraid to chase their "business model customers" away and so decided to chase a couple of thousand PvPers away. Reading the old threads shows that "they had been here". Now they are in Crowfall and some other games. Highly unlikely to ever come back.

Sounds like marketing blurb to me, sorry...

I dont, i really dont but even then there is a "game mechanic game-stopper" for me around every next corner. This game is a very good RPG sandbox. Everything else, well................................................................................................................................

// Armar

 

I absolutely HATE systems that contradict their meaning. So anyone who isn't already in PvP shouldn't be allowed to PvP. How can Portalarium screw up such a simple concept?

Some of you are talking about encouraging people to switch to PvP... well it's actually doing the opposite effect to a good amount of people interested in PvP.

This rule makes it so that EVEN IF I identify you as a threat before hand, I cannot dispatch you before you attack me first... just because you are not in the system (PvP flagged) yet. This is better than stealth, more powerful than invisibility; it's invulnerability and the assailant gets to pick his targets and when to strike. Portalarium has established terrible rules of engagement.

Until the system is changed, I will never flag for PvP. I will PvP in other games. PvP is what keeps me playing games... so who knows how long I'll be playing SotA with this crap.