Understanding OPEN PVP (Why?)

Because people keep insisting that a slider is exactly the same as having two servers. My original question was "how will the economy be the same"?

I think before we can measure any pros or cons...we first have to look at the two options non-objectively.

 

From the point of view of separating conflicting styles of play, Selective Multiplayer is similar to separate servers, but superior in that there can be free movement back and forth, which is difficult if not impossible with separate servers. If there are no problems with the economy with Selective Multiplayer, it's a waste of time to mention it.

Do you have anything else that's not a problem that you want to bring up?

 

Qwain, I remember back when you were the first person on these boards to demand a separate pvp server....and if I remember right Gunga-din has one of the developer seats. If there wasn't a good chance of a problem then why would any of us be here talking about it. Depending on how Selective Multiplayer is implemented...there could be a big problem with the economy, on the other hand it could be great I don't know.

 

What don't you understand? We are mixing SPO, FPO and OPO etc. Different rule sets which could affect the in game economy. I think its normal to have some doubt.

 

Sota has stated right from the beginning that they plan to offer people the choice of play styles.

I think 2 servers is out. It's already been nearly stated and talked around that you will not be able to transition from open world to selective multiplayer easily. Things like time durations, location requirements etc have been talked about.

Many people on both sides have said "each to their own, what is the problem?". Well, the economy is the problem. Particularly to do with high value resources and mob drops. Those who choose open world have to face significantly greater risk to get those items, while the PVErs can sit and farm.

This would give the PVErs a huge economic advantage. Sota is aware of this and will not let it happen. PVErs hard liners are going to be really upset when Sota puts the economy first, as they have talked about on many other topics. I would say this is a tenant of the game.

If i'm wrong, I will spend an in game day chopping tress for the "lady lumberjack". If I'm right, she has to stop threatening to report people and clearly insulting them in the same thread.

So many talks by Sota dev team have focused on immersion and social interaction. I would read not so far between the lines and say their goal is to create a system where PVPers and PVErs will work better together. PVPers acting as guards/protection in those areas in exchange for access to the crafted/farmed high end gear and crafted items.

Done properly, you would have guilds or groups of both styles. PVErs might actually start enjoying the open world and realize that a few bad apples have painted many in a bad light.

Their is a big difference between PVPers, PKs and griefers. I think they will have pretty severe deterrents for PKs and griefers in Sota. The fear of thousands of gankers etc is legitimately based on some big mistakes made in UO. Mistakes this dev team knows intimately and certainly will not repeat.

Even if I am way off the mark and end up needing to sharpen my axe.... PVEers need to be prepared for a system that will not allow you economic advantage simply by opting out of PVP. This will not make you happy. Start the deep breathing now.

 

As has been enumerated at length, a properly designed economy can take ~infinite resources into account and function just fine.
Over time, regardless of risk during acquisition, it's best to presume everyone has near infinite resources and design the system accordingly. To do otherwise is to repeat the same mistakes of the past.

 

There is always doubt, but doubt is insufficient reason to change a design. Testing will confirm or deny if there is a problem. If there is a problem, the problem can be mitigated. If there is no problem, it will have been a good thing that the dev's didn't panic for no good reason.

 

You can have some resources with a contested throttle. These are vanity things for the 1% in the game to feel superior. But these are effectively gated by PvP. (Not necessarily combat. It could be a pie baking contest.)

 

I don't think I've ever advocated separate servers, at least not since Selective Multiplayer was announced, but you are welcome to dig through the couple thousand posts I've made if you want to prove me wrong.

Depending on how it's implemented, all sorts of things are possible. I think we should wait to see how it IS implemented before worrying about how it MIGHT be implemented.

 

https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/forum/index.php?threads/siege-perilous.712/#post-9554

Not exactly, but you had some really good ideas about not letting people slide back and forth to gain advantages.

 

In that post, I'm not advocating separate servers. I'm quoting someone who was, and I'm offering alternatives short of separate servers to mitigate the problems the other person saw that led them to think that separate servers would be necessary. I don't like the idea of separate servers.

 

How so? They're planning on unbalancing the economy in favour of PvPers by putting exclusive materials and increased rares in PvP gated hexes. Unless they're planning to do the same with PvE encounter hexes where many fear to tread (beside the occasional bone of 'Oh yeah. And Challenging PvE too') then that puts an unfair market advantage to the PvP side.

I've seen commentary from the UO players on two lines:

1) Trammel destroyed the UO economy by letting people farm without getting jumped
2) Felucca destroyed the UO economy because of the increased rare rates / exclusive drops that they received.

So which is it? One? Both? Neither? (I wasn't there so I don't have an opinion. Just sitting back with the popcorn)

 

I feel like it's ground hog's day..

 

@Struan Excellent Post.

 

Without some kind of open PvP,
What happens when you're adventuring with another friend in another PvP guild, neutral to yours.
In comes along non friend from a 3rd PvP guild, enemy with your friend's guild..
Because your guild is not at war with the 3rd guild.. You cannot help your friend.
Cannot help your friend..
-1

 

You're describing a scenario where guilds at war can fight at any time, so long as the guilds are at war. This may be the case in the game.

If your character isn't a member of either guild, and your guild hasn't taken an official side in the war, then do you really need to be involved?

If you all want a larger scale battle, it seems like there will be maps you can travel to for open PvP with everyone involved.

You're describing a fringe scenario. Does that truly outweigh all griefing and the objections of all other players?

 

This is even messier in hybrid cases like we often had in L2. Fortunately in SotA it has options like simply spawning a new instance when it can't figure out the best rules.

 

I'm just saying, whether PvP guilds can fight all the time or not...

In the scenario that I present, which isn't such a fringe thing, it would probably happen a lot actually..
The only need I would have to join their war would be to defend my friend.

That is all,
I can't defend my friend. (edit: because of an invisible force) That to me is lame. That's all.

edit: I would rather be able to join in on the fight to defend my friend, because that's what real friends do and it is the honorable thing to do, and face the consequences..
Be they guards coming to attack me for attacking someone who is innocent to me (Since rules of war would not apply, since I am not at war with my friend's enemy) than sit back and be made a coward and watch my friend when his life is in peril.

 

Interesting, there is also a presumption you will be able to inhabit the same instance together as well.

If you were able to enter the Guild PvP instance as a non-combatant, that adds some interesting quirks to the whole system.

 

I am saying tho that I am a combatant. (edit: Unfortunately not in this case..)

I and the two other players in this scenario are all in PvP guilds.. Just mine is neutral to both of theirs..

Since, I am a 'friend' with my friend, why couldn't I then be in the same instance?