Understanding OPEN PVP (Why?)

I would agree in part. The exploit arises from dropping to a lower mode, not from raising.

So being able to instantly join a PvP instance running on a hex map should be possible.


However, in order to deactivate the PvP flag, one would need to return a safe area to do so.

Similarly, raising to OPO from a lower level should be possible anywhere, prior to entering a hex map. But dropping from OPO down to SPO should be available only at specific locations in the world.

It has been noted by the devs that temporary PvP only hexes may exist as a means of promoting PvP interest for the non-PvP crowd.

The effect would only be temporary though (the town under siege was an example).

I agree, permanent hexes could incur resentment.

 

I know you state later that you didn't mean everyone but you say That's what it's all about. and the rest are even worse, implying those who aren't the rest are what it's all about.
I'm sure the 'dumbing down' comment wasn't directed at all of you either, yet you threaten to report. (Classic 'extreme' PvE)
I would say what you have said is harsher, as is your general tone.
And, you scoff at others who feel offended, yet you are the one who threatens to report.
As far as the first line of this statement goes.. You ignore every single post in this thread and others favoring it.
I don't want easy farm kills, I don't want a world saturated with murderers, I am not a PK, a lot of us aren't.. No matter ho much we try to deny it.
(I can't believe I just wasted my energy on this but it truly bothers me.)

As Docdoom said, yes, there is a bit of truth in that. Some people are just bullies...
That's why you create systems and NPCs that make it shitty to be an *******. (Pardon the pun)

I hear you. I don't want an arena either.
I am one who believes this can be balanced, that's all.
I want ways to make it hard for pks.. blah blah blah.. penalties,, guard spawns, hunter spawns etc.. blahhhh... Many threads have been made..

I suppose the different hex styles will offer all the different possible scenarios of game play. I really hope so.
I just hope that the hex styles are well balanced enough to make the world seem realistic. Rather then weird pockets of magical PvP.

I'd rather see protected hexes with NPC guards that auto hunt PKs or people who attack others then to see hexes where I magically can't attack people. Because of some invisible etheral force.

Valid points..

I think a big part of the balance will be in the hex system.

I am guessing that when a party of friends, some PvP some Not, enter a PvP hex they would all be flagged for PvP.. Or those who don't want to don't enter the hex.
This would solve problems 1 & 2.
I do however, really hope that there will be hexes that are PvP / PvE neutral..
You just then have to make solid rules of engagement of combat for onlookers which have also been discussed in many threads.
I don't see what the big deal is between the number of PvP to nov PvP players in the hexes and others bouncing out.. Why? Because PvPers are PvErs too.. If they want the optimal fighting conditions, I imagine there will be full PvP battle ground hexes..

As far as towns go, I am with you. No PvP. Everyone gets flagged PvE. (Maybe some towns could be more lenient.)

The key lies in building a realistic world with well balanced hexxes that allows balance for everyone.

This post makes more sense. I am with you. However, if you are a crafter and enter an unprotected hex or a battle zone hex well.. You should then be ''forced'' into PvP with your ''consent'' which would be entering that hex.

He wants to stop rampant PKing. I think most of us do too... Why do people constantly ignore all the parts about balance and penalties etc..
Also, I can find video quotes where they support the early feelings of danger in UO. He will make a balanced game.
There will be PKs I am sure, just not rampant.

Having proper battle fields makes it a fair and level playing field for warfare.

Why would this cause resentment.. Why not have all kinds of hexes?

What I don't understand is this type of logic below..
I don't want to have your play style forced upon me ever!
While at the same time thinking.
You should not be allowed to experience the full PvP you want in a zone that I don't need to go into because I would not choose to!
I should be allowed to play everywhere you play but you cant play with me where I want to play.

Super hypocritical.

 

I agree with you.
I would add that in order to deactivate the flag, not only would you have to leave the zone, but let's say you looted someone for instance and that's what flagged you.
That criminal flag should be on a timer as well. that way you can't just loot a body and become flagged, then escape the zone and become innocent.
The crime should follow you into the new zone if the timer is still active.

 

I very much dislike the thought of organized groups of people just popping into a PvP hex instantly... Seems pro-ganking.

I'm not sure how large they plan on making hexes, but I'm concerned that these hexes will concentrate PvP to the point of making it about power in numbers, and not skill.

How about 50% of joined landmass is PvE, and the other 50% is PvP? Get on the boat and sail to PvP-land.

Sent from my EVA Unit-01 using Tapatalk

 

Too long for me to reply to every word on my poor mobile.

1) I was referring to griefers as I stated, if that wasn't clear enough for you, it should be now because I've said it twice now. Won't be responding to comments about this anymore, twice is enough.
2) forcing people into any kind of pvp is not acceptable to many of us. We are not interested for many reasons including skill point limitations.
3) its not hypocritical. In fact i and many others have been saying that both pvp and non pvp should be allowed (consensual) which is us trying to meet you in the middle. The response we get is that we are totally irrational. That makes no sense. The hypocrisy lies with pvpers not wanting to meet in the middle, not the other way around. Having consensual pvp IS meeting in the middle. The only ones not happy are those extremists who want carte Blanche to kill anyone anywhere outside of town. That is not a negotiation, its a declaration.

 

There are going to be (at last count) ~4000 wilderness hexes on the overland map for EP1 launch, and a single wilderness hex can be 2000 meters by 2000 meters. The map of UO is 6144 by 4096 tiles. That means just four wilderness hexes, together, could be larger than the entire map of UO, if you presume one meter per "tile" as comparable.

 

Chatting with friends while you left click 300 times doesn't require a game yet I never see people talking about it. Add a game system and suddenly that same activity is an achievement such as the timber gathering Lady Innessa mentioned earlier. The context change creates meaning. PvP is no different. Throwing people into an arena has no meaning for a RPG encounter.

Everything changes with time. The fact we're talking about PvEers instead of PvMers is an example of that. Most of these horror stories have roots in early UO over a decade and a half ago. Do you really think nothing has changed since then? UO was beautiful, glorious and absolutely brutal. If any of you have played the PvP oriented MMORPGs over the years you'll see primarily old UO clans dominating their servers until they fade. Not because they're the most skilled but because they're the most ruthless and resistant to being griefed. Handfuls of 35-55 year old guys leading groups who crush the individually more talented competition over and over. Why? It was adapt or quit in early UO. That crucible created the guys I'm talking about just as it created the fears of many on this forum. There hasn't been a setting like that in 15 years nor will there ever be. Games know more about what they're dealing with and will either handle it better or avoid handling it all together (the more popular choice).

Nothing stays the same and that holds especially true for players. The last I heard of Gunga Din he was a merchant king who seemed likely to squirm at the thought of PvP and here he's accused of being like the rest of us PKing scum. Mainstream gaming has created many options for those who want to log in, kill, and log out. Options that don't require the character building of an MMORPG but still provide plenty of opportunity to impose your will on the weaker for a time. Have you played many competitive games in the last 5 years? With all of the ranked gaming options there is a prevailing mentality of fighting people your level. Prior exposure to MMOGs and options in the market will already filter much of the element most wish to avoid. Will it eliminate it? No, there is always a food chain and some will have no choice but to target the near helpless, but that number would be drastically reduced from ancient memories of Sosaria.

Finally, where is your faith in innovation? We're discussing this topic using stories that are almost old enough to vote and referencing game mechanics just as dated. No game has had the flexibility and immersion UO provided despite all the high dollar attempts and paring down of server types to ease creation of just that. If any game steps up with something new that actually works for most everyone don't you think it would be this one? So why the hard stances already? Sure, I favor an open PvP atmosphere because I don't see how PvP can be meaningful if it's optional yet has no additional content tied to it. I also believe times have changed enough that open PvP would provide merely struggle to the more passive players instead of the immeasurable misery of the late '90s. That said, if there's a game worth staying calm until you've actually tried it isn't this the one?

 

Not sure who you're asking, but I will reply. I don't see anyone panicking. Just strong opinions from both sides. We will all wait to see what gets implemented.

For me, if its non consensual pvp only, I won't be playing, and there are many more like me. That's fine though, sota won't be the game for me and I'll move on along with many others.

BTW I liked the thoughts that went into your post until you mentioned pvp won't be meaningful to you unless its 'open'. I'm assuming what you mean by that is non consensual. This perfectly illustrates my point that people want to murder those who are not interested in fighting for some reason. Add 5000 of those players in a new game and it will be a bloodbath for those of who won't arm ourselves or take fighting skills since we don't care about that gamestyle, not a game I'm at all interested in.

That's just me personally.

 

Bah ! Look my Avatar man !

 

Merchant King .. Yes. Squirm ? Show some respect

 

Not all pvp is out to grief, we will have each other to kill! We will be fine with that.

 

In order for PvP to be meaningful, it has to matter for those not directly in the current fight. It's really that simple. So if you choose not to pick up a sword and defend your water tower, the town may lose that water tower. And that will hurt crafting or whatever else. So people can fight or opt out of PvP, or switch to SPO, or log off. Regardless, that water tower needs defenders and you can help or not. This may include losing a whole town. This may include capturing some mine which makes life easier. But this is what PvP is about. Not an instanced minigame. Not reds PKing miners. But stuff that matters to everyone.

I realize UO didn't get this right at the start. And maybe it never did. But games which got PvP right were about meaningful objectives which everyone cared about. And I have no doubt this will be true in SotA based on the PvP stretch goals.

 

those are good ideas! and some good points! Plus personally to attack a noob that has nothing of value is dumb in my eyes at least go after something you can benefit from! But if you do PK a noob pvp player i promise i will come after you! and thanks for making my game interesting!

 

That has some potential. I mean, if I enter a town and I get a warning: "A battle for this town/tower/etc is underway! Would you like to join the fray?" That's some PvP I might be able to get behind, as long as it wasn't happening half the time I entered a town/tower/etc. And of course, if MY town was under siege, I'd feel like it was my duty to defend it. If implemented right, it could be cool.

 

You say that but in reality it won't be that way. There will be hundreds or thousands of gankers running around whacking guys with fishing poles. Stupidity.

 

i think its blown out of proportion really! Most of the times i saw someone get ganked for "no reason" it was because they were talking crap to the pkr! I dont think it will be that much theyll be busy trying to stay alive themselves! becuase being a pk puts you on hit lists to people!

 

I've played up and other MMOs for more than a decade now. I've never seen one where there weren't a significant number of idiot gankers. I can guarantee it will happen in sota as well. You can pray and hope all you want, but history tells the tale. It can't be stopped or controlled.

In reality, it doesn't even make sense that pvpers have an issue with consensual pvp. The people who will choose not to pvp are probably unarmed/unskilled in fighting anyway. The only conceivable reason you could have to want to be able to kill them is because you like ganking and ruining others play styles who aren't interested in pvp.

You want to pvp and whack each other, go ahead. Just don't force me to participate in that play style. No interest at all.

 

Um no! i Like the Pkr becuase i like to go after them and kill them its that simple and its our way of play that we enjoy! You may not enjoy it, but we do PVP/PKR alike! I am far from a ganker! way far from a ganker! But i do like to gank the ganker!!!!! as much as i can! if you were there i wouldnt even look your way! if you said "I was just ganked" then i would go after the ganker whether you liked it or not! it is just a way of play like your Soft PVP, consenual etc... if you slide the bar over to PVP youve just consented whether you like it or not! You could have just stayed in PVE! Im not telling you how to play the game you like, and i would expect the same in return! I highly believe they should be separate! and have option to do so or not you have no clue how i play! honestly! and its not ganking a noob! So just have your game the way you want we do have a slider bar to work with! By you telling me i like to go out and gank people makes me laugh! I will be the guy getting your crap back for you and then some from the guy that grieved you! Thats how i play! I wont need anyones stuff!

 

Huh? You just agreed with me that pvp should be consensual with a slider bar.

Thanks for agreeing.

 

i never once said there shouldnt! id rather have you all over there instead of on the same slider i am anyhow, and alot would agree with that! Us hardcore pvpr/pkrs would have a much better time playing our style with out all teh complaining! We all understand on our side of the bar that we can be ganked and killed, looted and attacked and we accept it! Not once have i ever said there shouldnt be an option! I think you just misunderstood me, since you are fairly new here, we already had all th bouts about PVP/PVE and its old so we dont really do it that much anymore! Most people that know me know i fully support the option, i have hard core pvp friends and non pvp friends, and soft core (in my opinion) pvp friends!