We're doing this PVP XP Bonus thing all wrong.

This is actually a valid argument. If you read the About SotA page all it says about PVP is this: "PVP: Consensual with Open PVP flags, zones, and Guild Warfare." That sums up exactly what we have; it's doesn't say a thing about the bonus. Although, the bonus does help to attract grinders and it does help with the grind... that little bit of extra 10% helps. And all the artifacts and potions you can find now in Blood Bay and Ruins and Shardfalls. I'm actually a little surprised the PVP scenes aren't bursting at the seams with activity.

 

Well, I'm not.

Killers only need other people to have fun in pvp. But most other players are not killers, in fact the vast majority of players are not killers. So if you give the vast majority of players a choice between going into a pvp zone where they can be spawn camped and then ridiculed, or not going there but having a lower drop rate for the exact same rares, they'll choose the safer areas in mass. Why? Because they're not there for the pvp!

Which is why the developers need to start building PVP with exclusive "stuff" that you can't get anywhere else in the game. That, and they need to make NPC guards in towns that make those areas far less of a gank fest. Until they do those two things, we're not going to have the kinds of PVP populations that would be fun and exciting for killers.

 

First of all: don't allow this who's around window if PvP flagged. No risk if i be aware of possibly attackers just entering the zone.
I didn't think over it until, because I don't PvP yet, but if you can flag and go for PvE what is fine and get 10/ 20% bonus (20 for those who don't want to play MP) and be warned if anyone enters the scene, there is no big risk!

Maybe we need a poll what would attract people to flag.

I have always just 3 points:

1. Make PvP Skillcap at 80. Still powerfull enough to PvE in t5.
It's not easy to get your main skills up to 80, but it's possible even if you are very casual like me.
Haven't made it yet, but this is manageable and would make PvP somewhat balanced.
can't be really balanced, but it's not good if PvP depends on playtime and powergaming to just make the numbers,
it's neither fun nor necessary.

2. Let off Looting ressources, equip... instead give the winner Crowns of War and a bone (and maybe a kill count for titles)!
With CoW you can buy decorations and wearables that fit PvP and maybe alternative to a kill count title system titles to buy for CoW.
PvP needs rewards to the winners, but does it need more suffering to the looser than loosing itself? I think no.
Regencies are needed to fight on, if there are gone, PvP stops for the combatants at this moment in their actual PvP situation.
Ressources are hard to gather and collect and expensive, same for equipment and even gold.
Casuals like me prevent PvP mostly because 1 and 2.
Micromanagement and beggar cloth aren't acceptable to me!

3. Let of restrictions of Scenes!!!
I think it's a valid point, as long as PvPers ask for meaning and matter and this ends up in powerplay and scene restrictions they need to argue with the majority. Maybe most PvE only players have accepted it and I am the only one who doesn't get it, but I see absolutely no argument that justifies this.
If PvPers get their meaning from wearables and titles and not locking of people who don't want to compete from scenes and PvE content, lore relevant scenes for Roleplayers, short cut and all that people would feel less disappointed.

 

I only kill the players that are flagged for grinding. I'll fight anyone, and I lose most of the time. And when a player fights back - after a couple win/lose rounds we usually chat and get social and split the scene we're in for grinding or party up and hunt other players together.

So it's not just killers interested in ganking... some of us are righteous killers that follow the code of Blood Nation.... BE READY.

 

I hate comparing other games because I don't want people to think this game should be like any other game, but why re-invent the wheel? Just a random comparison: ArcheAge. Now, forget everything you hear about the game with P2W, blah, blah, blah. PvP in ArcheAge is pretty darn good. The only thing it lacked was looting players, in which case it'd probably be the best PvP game out there (IMHOOC).

And there was risk. It was with trade packs. You made them inside a PvP zone, but in an area that was safe (housing). But once you got out of housing you had to haul it across a zone. I am not advocating we do trade packs, but you get the idea - there was some risk.

And then you had open zones (really large) with open PvP and objectives. There were constant large battles that reminded me of Old Tarren Mills days in WoW, where there was an ebb and flow.

Again, not trying to say we should become ArcheAge. I am just saying if the Developers are going to do something meaningful, look at the examples out there that worked.

 

I like the Archeage legal system. I also like the trade packs concept. Neither are perfect, but I'd love to seem the adapted and improved on here.

 

The risk is that someone comes and disturbs you. I agree it would be better to provide pvp faction gear or sth else to improve levelling or crafting. But I think they dont have time for that yet.

Archeage.. SWG... or any other sandbox. Good idea. We are still waiting on when and how there will be sandbox features in this game. Id wish the devs share their vision with us... and no more dont lawyer me bro pls.

 

You did? Congratulations......... @Vallo Frostbane we have obviously been looking in the wrong place

In all fairness I have seen you in a shardfall.....I think it was R14 and you died a horrible death then complained about levels or something to detract from your poor PvP skills.

Sadly you deem everything you don't like as a personal attack just to get posts shut down and removed.........and that isn't a personal attack.....that is just fact.

 

I don't think the developers have a vision.

I believe they sincerely want to (and intend to) support PVP. I just don't think they have a good idea of how they're going to do that exactly.

Because it's an iterative process and because they try to make the most of the data they get back after each iteration, I think PVP could really end up just about anywhere. The last time they came out of their shell and shared long term ideas with us they started talking about giant robots that guilds could construct. I personally hated that idea because it didn't address the foundational issues that (at least in my mind) are still not being addressed. Things like providing more reason to pvp and making pvp a fun experience for people that aren't in "kill anything that moves" mode.

Blood Bay is a great example of this. Why anyone in the current state of the scene would spend more than an hour exploring that map is beyond me. There's no reason to go back there, there's better farming areas in safer parts of the game. There's nothing to actually fight over. Even if there were housing there, what would be the difference between that place and a PVP POT? Again, that's true of the current iteration, I have no idea what to expect going forward. But to say Blood Bay is currently underwhelming is an understatement in my opinion. Which is kind of how I feel about PVP as a whole right now.

This experience bonus is really kind of a gimmick to manufacture pvp traffic. It's like the developers gave out free experience to anyone that would wear a PVP flag just to generate the illusion that PVP was healthy in our game instead of building the infrastructure to allow that to happen organically.

 

I don't think the devs are going to add any new stuff to PVP, less a few scene things and The Fall. Any reasonable expectation for an implementation of meaningful PVP game mechanics kinda went out the window with all the talk of 80% complete and launch being months away. Meaningful PVP from here on out is going to have to be what the playerbase makes it out to be. It's time for acceptance... just flag, get the Daring Adventurer bonus and have some fun with it. Because if you wait too much longer - you're not going to stand a chance against sheep like me... you know... the ones out mixing it up every day... don't wait for launch.

 

I was level 13 and you were level 70 something, and yes it's a fact that you won that battle in R14 against a player that was 60 levels lower than you. Congratulations indeed.

During R14, I discovered how important levels were. At that time levels were still being used in PVP hit calculations, and as you can see here a lower level player had virtually no shot of killing a higher level player (even when they were unarmed and naked!)


I believe it was because of this video that Chris decided to remove levels from pvp. You're welcome.

This is the kind of thing testing should be used for. You find bugs and you report them. You don't run to someone's POT and use them to get a cheap kill that you can milk for the rest of your life. At least, that's how I see it.

When you create false statements against someone it's a personal attack. It's not about me liking it or not liking it. It's about the forums functioning for the purpose of discussion. These forums are not an extension of PVP, there are different rules here than in the game. If you want to fight me when I'm flagged for PVP (without using exploits) you're welcome to do that. But the forums are not a place where throwing out insults and making stuff up is acceptable.

 

I have reason to believe that over time there will be more mechanics added that will make PVP much better than it is right now.

But I'm open to the idea that I'm wrong and PVP will never get better. If that's the case, I won't be doing much of it. It's a meaningless gank fest right now, and I don't enjoy that type of play. If I did, I would not be trying to make PVP better, I'd be playing more PVP. I'd probably also be playing somewhere else, there are fully finished games out there that offer that kind of PVP, some of them are built specifically for that style of mindless play. If I wanted that, I'd go there.

 

Artifacts and potions are only in pvp areas? Or all areas? This weekend I was in novia pve 4 and 5 level areas a lot and saw no artifacts or recipes drop. I must of missed they are pvp rewards exclusively?

 

No, they are not pvp exclusive. PVP areas may have better drop rates. But probably not that either...I think five skull areas (pvp or pve) all have the same drop rates.

I found a recipe and tons of potions in non-pvp areas over the weekend.

 

Thank you. I just have horrible luck.

 

Try going to a 5 skull area that has high level magic users. But if you want the best artifiacts, you're going to have to farm the hell out of boss creatures.

 

How can you possibly know what's happening and how to make it better? SotA PVP is hands down the most social experience I've had in this game. Sure, there are ganks and PKs and losses... but there is a lot of fun stuff to do and a lot of cool people to chat with and hangout/hunt with. PVP in SotA is a RPG RP PVP sandbox - it is exactly what it's presented as and you have an entire POT dedicated to the idea of RPG RP PVP in a sandbox. Just flag man, it's actually a lot of fun if you'd just do it.

They're not exclusive to PVP scenes, but I've had really great finds in PVP scenes... a half dozen artifacts and over 100 potions. Though, the only recipes I've found were in Control Points and The Rise.

 

This is exactly what people said about the combat system. "You don't play enough! Blah blah blah....You've never been over level 50!" Now we don't hear that simply because I have so much playing time and levels that it's no longer an argument they can make. Speaking of those people, most of them are not even playing the game anymore for various reasons.

But back on topic, the argument you're making is the same one. Because you don't see me playing the game the way you do, you assume I don't know anything? Well that's flawed logic my friend. I've been following this game as long as anyone has and I've played every release. I also have quite a bit of experience in other games. But none of that really matters. What matters is that I have ideas, and if you don't like those ideas you should explain why but leave the part about "me the player" out of the conversation.

Have I ever said anything about you the player? No. I may not agree or like your ideas, and I'll talk about those, but I don't attack players even if I don't like them. Because that's not how you win arguments and it's against the forum rules.

 

Do whatever you want man, but you seem to always know what's best for PVP and by your own admission you don't flag because you're waiting for something better. PVP here is what it is - and I'm willing to bet everything that the devs aren't creating any new PVP game mechanics - SotA is only months away from commercial launch.

I just wish you'd flag and come out and start enjoying the game - you could actually do a lot of good and fun things with the PVP community if you'd just flag.

 

Ya, people have fond memories of UO like I did but it started out a disaster. UO would have burned early if they didnt split the worlds, it has turned into a game where new people would start and then get ganked (and even more so, stolen, cheated, scammed from) for an hour which lead to massive volumes of people quitting. The forums for UO were much like this one, filled full of complaints.