We're doing this PVP XP Bonus thing all wrong.

Remember, this isn't normal PVP. It's somewhat consensual. There is not real risk, beyond the inital XP loss, for dying in PVP which means there is no significant real reward - beyond the small gold you will get because the person doesnt want you to have thier 2 random looted broken swords and jawbone. So you need incentive to get people to partcipate in, what is typically, the enjoyable end game. It helps create tension and sandbox style stories created by the players and a more robust game. Thus the incentive. Albeit a paltry one.

People should just join a party if you just want more XP..and the 10% pvp frustrates them so much...go figure.

 

Portalarium seem to me to ticks to a Plan or maybe a Vision they have post UO and Trammel etc. trying to combine things.
The players dont accept that and are either pro pvp, flagging 24/7 or versus pvp and dont like it at all. Ofc there are some in between, but that doesnt Count.
So one group is lurking if they haven't leaved already and the other group is circumventing. They try to attract them by xp Bonus. To satisfie the other group they give them pvp only zones. Ruins and Shardfalls and then Bloodbay what is a short cut from Drachvald to Regalis and Vice Versa.
While the pvpers think pvp only Zone gives pvp a meaning, they miss that it doesnt if everybody can circumvent these zones. They have no meaning and therefore they are empty.
And if they dont make the whole game open pvp neither all pvp only scenes dont give any meaning to pvp nor the players are willing to use this zones, because there is no neccessary to visit them.
They arent even neccessary to pvp, because you can do that everywhere you want.
The actual System will maybe work in 1 - 2 years when all actual players still play and have developed chars and more restock capabilities.
Atm it's just Powergamer end content and nothing for people with low or mid levels.
You sure can go pvp, but it's like you go with your Kindergarten friends play against Harlem Globetrotters.
Someone already said a player with Adv >100 and 10 GM can wipe a whole group of Medium levels, lets say around 60-80.

PvP is endcontent and most of the players play instead of rush to the end.

 

It's not just somewhat consensual - it's unequivocally 100% consensual. The Oracle practically berates you for wanting to turn off her protection - it's not just only a fully consensual experience - it's begins with a warning from the Oracle.

 

Here.

That's all we know at the moment.

 

It's consensual but want me to accept to be locked off of content!

What if you play a open PvP full loot game and they introduce 100% consensual RP map, where you cannot PvP and have to RP.
Someone talk to you and if you don't react you will be arrested or you have to leave.
The zone offers an XP Bonus, some varied mobs and increased lootchance for several things.
But you are always in danger to need to RP with dull people telling g you the same joke over and over.
And you really hate that and don't do it , just because it's stupid and not worth it and of course it is voluntary.

Wouldn't you feel that this isnt 100% consensual as it ask you to dismiss this content?
because you just dont want to play like this?

Think of a Themenpark , entrance for wheelchairs cost exactly the same than for normal visitors and the park offers a lot of attractions
That are not possible while you are sitting in a wheelchair. But you go there voluntary and it's consensual to pay the full price?

 

Don't think of it like you're being restricted from content... think of it more like you're being protected from an experience you wouldn't enjoy.

 

Yes understand that, but this view is from the basis that it actually is full PvP, but the Oracle protects.
Like in the other post you mentioned to be flagged while logging in and need to visit the Oracle to activate protection.
You are looking from the other side and I am looking more from the "we are all save" side and PvP is just an option to those who don't want to be safe from other players.

It doesn't matter for me what was promised or what is announced etc. I am interested in what the majority that is actually playing wants.
And I am interested in solving the conflict between hardcore PvE versus hardcore PvP.
Maybe both need to make more compromises.

 

You'll likely get what you want. Games like Chronicles of Elyria look very promising for PVP players that want housing, decos, and an experience that integrates complex choice/consequence mechanics for PVP actions into a 10 year story. The real beauty of the PVP scenes here in SotA is that once the PVP community is reduced to the absolute point of certain extinction, all the devs will need to do is remove the PVP flag requirement for the scenes and voila! New PVE content for the masses! Stay strong and true to your course my friend, at this stage of the game's development it's very likely you'll get what you want in the end.

 

I dont believe it will happen as long as Darkstarr and Lord British are around.
The scenes maybe will just have a few people using it, but they will stick to this scenes to have the possibility to have a little more thrill even if there already is no big thrill, because even Bloodbay is empty.
Sad but true.

To be honest I would like a PvE only game, I loved VSoH, but I do not want to drive PvPers like you away.
It's more about if the people who argue pro PvP could make some serious compromises I think more people would take some risk to die.

1. No PvP exclusive scenes - PvE players who like!E you say "hate" PvP and fight it at the forums would stop fighting PvP because it becomes 100%
voluntary and consensual and all over all just an option.

2. No Bonus, but you will get something it's worth , see 3. below

3. No looting of items, ressources, reagents, equip. Instead every kill gives you a crown of war with what you can purchase PvP related things like titles, wearables, PvP potions ...

4. PvP Skillcap at 80 and a Stat Cap at let's say 500.
Even Casuals can make it to have the main skills at 80 and get Stats near 500 in some Month, then they are ready for pvp, because from this point on it is playerskill and decks (80 = 5 Glyphs) and not invested time grinding my ass of.

If this happens I am ready to give it a try in some weeks , but maybe earlier although I don't have everything at 80 or stat 500, but not very far away.

Yes with this loosing means nothing, but need it to be so bad to satisfy the winner.
Isn't it enough to loose and the winner gets something for winning?

I think if winning means something beyond impairing and powerplaying the looser, this would be enough to enlive PvP trying to win
And not trying to bother others!

Thing is, and I may be not the only one, I feel bothered by many, many PvPers that get the meaning and matter for pvp from locking me of something if I don't want to compete or stealing something from me or looting me, spawncamp me....

I even don't have any big problems with PK and KoS .

I have a problem with op characters, loot my stuff i need hours and days to get it or get it back and if it's just some gold , what i always lacking as a mage who doesn't and cannot grind mines, i have a problem with people who powerplay me if i don't want to participate.
Did you play or try Reign of Kings. Beeing catched and decapitated some times is fun, of course if the brutals are your friends , all laughing together in TS. But then try this with strangers and let them do it 10 times, it ends up with no fun to you.

 

It's a convoluted argument and people are just worn out and tired of it. Even if you took the PVP requirement away, people would just start screaming that it's not fair they have to be in multiplayer to go to these scenes and that will all loop back to the original argument of why no one ever plays the MMO... and that would loop back to why the economy is so fracken jacked up.... and that would all loop back to regional economies and why anyone/everyone can craft whatever they want so they don't need multiplayer - so why can't they go to these scenes in single player online mode.

A good start to a fix for things would be if there was some public support from Portalarium with regards to PVP. Maybe even a community manager that flags for PVP and gets in the game with us from time to time. Maybe if one of them enjoyed it, the community would respond more positively to why things are the way they are.

 

You actually make a few good points that I support. I think its insane still to lose gear in PvP and therefor pretty much get kicked out of being able to PvP unless you do radical things in your inventory to adjust (which is silly)

But most of this is insanity. PvP design in MMO's has been evolving for 20 years and in the vast majority of MMO's its design is the same because thats really only the thing that works. To try and redesign would take a AAA game with hundreds of millions of dollars to design something radically new. In fact, the reason why PvP in this game is so terrible right now is that they have not had time until now to start working on it and even at that, they probably dont have enough money and assets to develop even the standard MMO PvP experiencing.

Giving war crowns or PvP experience simply would not work in this game by its design. It works in games like WoW that had specific PvP zones that you queue into which almost guarantees that you are put up against an enemy.... but in this game... I would just log my alt in and chain kill them for the war crowns and exp. Think through the process on that.

Simple fact is that it looks like they just gave up on one PvP dungeon which signals to me that they are cutting way back on the PvP design and leaves me little hope now that they will put the time in to put in place good PvP property in game.

 

I am still of the opinion that SotA was not meant to be a MMO (see the Kickstarter campaign) and that making it into a MMO caused all of those troubles. Too small scenes for too few people to play simultaneously, a shoved in economy which clashed with many aspects of the game, suddenly multiplayer only scenes, suddenly multiplayer only scenes with PvP, suddenly no more choices and consequences during quests/story, the changes lead to confused backers who don't understand the game anymore and angrily leave... I know others might now say that I misunderstood the Kickstarter campaign and that the vision for SotA was always an MMO with a single player narrative - but I still disagree.

 

Seriously stop and think about the design of PvP in this game right now.

There is no design.

Other then allowing a flag to enable PvP or doing a /duel as well as a few zones flagged PvP... Throw in some code that manages the Oracle... that is the pure extent of the actual design of PvP in this game.

...And look at all the controversy this little bit of design causes the anti-PvP, forum PvP'ers here!

SOTA:
10 million lines of PvE code
10,000 lines of PvP code

 

Is it PvP flag for openPvP or just "duel" between guilds? Because it is very different to have war with one guild and to just force everyone in guild to be flagged against everyone.

Well, to be honest I would prefer game with the same code for all combat regardless whether it is PvP and PvE. There might be some extra code for flagging, duels and so on, though for the msot part the actual combat should be treated the same (which is not the case, there is a lot of PvE only and PvP only code dying in PvP is quite different, no xp loss but there is ransom tomb instead for one).

 

That is a to simplified view (yes, combat should work the same). We are talking about creating PvP assets and designing a PvP environment. Those things may be things like true castles siege'ing like say GW2, you can siege castles, put up things like catapults to bust down walls, kill the lord and take over the castle. You can have things like factions or guild wars and you can go into their areas ans steal their relics which gives your faction bonus's (DAOC). Things like developing a PvP rewards/ranking system. Building some true battle zones (like say WoW) where 15 people enter on each side and you run short scenarios like capture the flag (think AV in Wow back when it first came out). REAL mechanisms in the game for PvP. Right now we have a PvE game where you can flip a flag.. thats it.

 

If they leave the flag, i'm happy and one day i think i will flag, unleserlich there is no one left

For me it's just way too early to even try it, because i wont micromanage my inventory, i wont wear crap cloth and dont want to fight with 2 sweet sugarsticks while have the HP of an wrecked old man versus someone who wears a hitec suit and fight with a lasersabre and is in it's 20ies

I just cannot imagine this can be somhow fun, maybe unterstand me

With time and a pvp can and things i suggested maybe we see some more players willing to try pvp more, but think of there are lots of players not nearly Adv Level 80 or 100.
And, maybe this is a point.
Sone often stated you can get everything easy by your own.
Well i never made this experience.
I takes me hours and therefore many days (evenings playing) to farm mats for a epic cloth armor and such, and i even cannot make them on my own, i just can collect or farm gold and then buy it.
I never tryed seroiusly crafting because i am always around just a few thousand gold. 5000 maybe is my noun.
I just dont think i want to loose something if it or pay gold to hold it.
If i had 5 Sets of Armor and 50k Gold, well...

Lets burn it! I just dont have anything to burn and i am a roleplayer, it's a little but important to me, although it's just Pixels of course.

If restock and grind weren't so bad in this game, loosing stuff would mean less.

Maybe the pvpers at the forums have a different view at pvp at all, because they dont struggle like me with the game at all.

But i have fun, i still love the Game.
Never Invested much into games since 25 years of gaming, but SotA gets a lot money from me, although i was no founder i buyed a lot i the Shop and from the player market.
To me it's a very good Coop and RP environment in the first place.

 

Everyone, forced, flagged open PvP until the number of days set by the challenge passes.
So no duel, but rather welcome to the free for all.

You do get a warning when you log in the first time.

It's really a very strange implementation.

But hey at least the winning guild gets a plaque to hang in the guild hall...