Why are NPC Guards so important? I'll tell you.

Right, that's why the design of the game should prevent you from doing that while I'm in my home.

Well yeah, if they're programmed to do that.

Because I'm protected by walls in my own home. When you're protected by walls in your own home then you'd have fewer risks.

One thing you're missing the point on is that there's a huge difference between being the hunted and being the hunter. If you're the hunter, you're not going to be reading a book or at a crafting station. You're going to be out looking for people to kill. But if you're not in that frame of mind and you're trying to enjoy the game in other ways, you're immediately at a disadvantage through no fault of your own. Unless of course you have defenses like walls, doors, guards, etc... and then you might be able to find enough reasonable safety to do something other than look for people jumping out of the bushes at you. That's why this needs balanced, because if you don't do that you're telling people that if they want to do anything else besides hunt people down, you should probably just unflag. That reduces the pvp population unnecessarily.

 

So we're back at what I was saying before: you want specific rules for specific areas.

If I, the PKer, go to a PvP town then I'll have to keep track of which house I go to just so that I can identify who I can or can't kill.

So for each "layer" of PvP you're talking about in your OP, I have to keep track of this stuff otherwise I'll unexpectedly find targets that I can't kill or I'll get killed thinking I'd be safe.

I've already shared my thoughts on why that's a bad idea so I got nothing else to add.

Not at all. If you're flagged PvP, you're willing to be a target; that's the difference.

If you just want to PvP whenever you're ready to hunt people down, you should unflag and go to designated PvP zones... you'll only be flagged whenever you're in those areas. That's what they're there for.

Everybody knows who can kill who.

 

No, you just know that if someone, anyone, is in a locked home you're not going to be able to go into the home and kill them. Why are you making this difficult? It's not complicated. It's completely intuitive. Homes are safe. The end.

Nope. Wrong again.

In the current way the game works, yes that's how it works.

So what's going to happen is if that never changes and there are no NPC guards, homes are not safe, players can move through walls, etc... PVP areas will just be very empty.

 

I see a player with a [PvP] tag, I kill it. The End. There's no "if" or "but"... THAT'S simple.

If nothing changes there won't be any players AT ALL, so lets get that out of the way first.

You should already be safe in your house by virtue of hiding behind walls. That is, unless there's a way to see through walls that I'm not aware of. If players can see, MOVE or attack through walls, well that's an entirely different problem isn't it?

If I see you through the window of your house and you're enabled for PvP, I should be able to unlock that door (with the skill) and murder your character. Just as you should be able to craft and lay traps in your house to keep you safe...

 

It's also completely damaging to the goal of having more people engage in pvp. Why are full pvp games less popular? That's why. Because they it's all or nothing. And for more people it's nothing. That's just a fact.

Yes, and there are several bugs that allow that right now which are actively in the process of being fixed.

Well this is a very interesting conversation that probably deserves it's own thread.

Please before we continue the conversation, really think about how much fun that would be for the person on the inside of the home. The person on the outside of the home can attack whenever they want. They can use a skill that unlocks the door, that removes the trap. They can make the trap go off and even if it kills them they can respawn to do it all again. They can attack over and over again until they're successful. The person on the inside of the home doesn't have that luxury. The person on the inside of the home doesn't have (nor should they be required to have) a counter move to opening locks or setting off traps. These are not PVP events they're PVE events.

So from the point of view of someone breaking into someone else's home, it's all fun and games. But from the point of view of someone trying to sit down and do something other than actively defend their home 24/7 it's not much fun at all and there's no clear way to win. The only thing you can do is prevent the other person from winning until maybe they decide to give up and go bother someone else. In short, it's not a fun game to play if you're the guy inside the home because you're guaranteed to eventually lose.

It would be like if we were playing Tennis against each other, only you were allowed to serve whenever you wanted to. Days, Weeks, Months, it doesn't matter. You just get to serve (break into the home) whenever you feel like it. Maybe I'm asleep. Maybe I'm offline. Maybe I blinked. And then in order for me to return your serve and stop you from getting a point I have to be perfect. I have to return your hit back, not be out of bounds, and follow all the normal rules of Tennis, even though you're completely ignoring the rule that says when you can and can't serve. Would that be fun? No, it wouldn't and that's why when you play a game the rules have to be balanced for both sides or else the game isn't any fun.

 

Yeah, see, thats the problem for me. I want PvP to be an addition to my role-play, not to be a replacement. I like PvP to add flavor and excitement to my RP, but if its just see PvP flag, kill it, that does not interest me in the slightest.

I would much prefer a middle ground. What that middle ground is, I'm not 100% sure, but I'm hopeful we can find it, and not cause the people who prefer more open PvP to lose that as well.

What Baron proposes is sounding a bit more like what I'm looking for, but "see it, kill it" I have no interest in whatsoever.

 

The reality of the home invasion scenario is that it's not going to happen very often. But when it does, it's on-the-fly game content and it's exciting!

I've been perma flagged Open World Open PVP flagged since R35 and I've only ever been attacked in my home by two people. The first guy hemmed me up and I zoned right back in and he was gone. Oh well. The second guy - I beat him senseless and his dumb ass kept coming back to try again... so I beat him into the ground 6 or 8 times before he finally left. So, since R35 and me being Open PVP flagged everywhere all the time - and all over housing scenes - I have only ever been attacked twice in a home.

BDF - how many times have you been attacked in your home... in any home?

 

Personally I don't want my home to be invaded and to get attacked multiple times over any length of time. Even if I'm prepared for that fight, which I am.

Zero, but that's more a sign of the precautions I take than it is in the game's ability to make that a small risk.

 

So, this is all a strawman based on fear of home invasion?

 

I'm not sure if you're aware of this or not...but you just got done explaining that not only have you had this happen to you, you also want to do it to other people. You may want to look up what a strawman is.

 

I never said I wanted to do this to anyone. I said it made for exciting game content. I play the virtuous side of things in game - never even stolen a carrot. The only player I've ever PK'd was Atos and that was because I caught Atos AFK - I mean come on - it was Atos! And after the fact, I even relinquished the loot because I don't loot. haha

I agree the game should have NPC guards in the really big housing scenes.... but no way should PVP be made sterile. And no way should anything in a forced PVP scene ever become off limits.

 

I don't want a sterile game either. If there's a way (and I think there is) to allow players to pick locks without unbalancing the game, I'm all for it. But the aggressor in these games already has quite enough advantage.

I understand that if someone is flagged for pvp and they go to see a trainer they're at a huge disadvantage. But I don't think that they should have to unflag to go see the trainer. I think that having an NPC guard around the trainer that makes being attacked in that position far less likely is something we should do.

In the case of housing, I can't justify having a home in a pvp town if the home doesn't provide players with reasonable security. No one is going to live in a pvp town willingly if they want to spend significant amounts of time where they're doing other things besides hunting people down. If all someone is doing is hunting other players down or stealing from them, they don't really need a home.

 

I don't know what to tell you, BDF. Maybe instead of charging your residents rent, you could conscript them into a self defense force that protects the town - would make for some killer RP. Even where NPC guards are concerned - if they ever even become a thing, I can see them only being in a few of the larger scenes.

 

What you (and I and maybe Baron Drocis Fonderlatos) want isnt possible in an public MMORPG.
What we are asking for is a gentlemen agreement.

PvP... Gentlemen agreement ? Just LoL

This is only possible with Server Projects like Bowen once stated he did with NWN or what a Team with Reign of Kings did, when they setup a RP Map with PvP Rules and no KoS

 

No comment

 

I was RPing an avatar defending my home. I would have called the police - but there's no phone service in C.Britt. I suppose the guy breaking into my home was maybe RPing a nightshade addict. He wouldn't stop breaking into my home - what was I supposed to do? For an honorable game of PVP; have you checked out Chronicles of Elyria?

As for PVP in SotA - PVP is what it is guys . We're 80% complete and the finish line is in sight - and there may be new twists and turns yet to be discovered for PVP... if there are, we'll see them in Blood Bay.

 

I believe a Metro could hold over 50 NPC guards per the current NPC limitations, and I plan to max out whatever limit is with guards.

 

50 cops in a PVP town.... hrmmmmm.... very interesting.....

I don't think the Graff Family even has that many guards!

 

What @Baron Drocis Fondorlatos suggests is to allow players to not be target of PvP when they're labeled as PvP.

What you seem to be looking for is a reason to kill, but the act itself should be straightforward and not convoluted by rules. That's the difference.

Yet you feel like NPCs will improve PvP.

They willingly decided to flag themselves and, therefore, are a completely legit target. That's the whole purpose of the flagging system; it's to allow PvP all the time, everywhere.

Proceed to the trainer at your own risk, you don't have to unflag... but you probably should if you don't want to be a target.

You mean a duel?

Just because KoS is possible, it doesn't mean that KoS will always happens.

It's not about the pleasure of hunting someone down; it's about not having to deal with extra rules just to do what we both agreed to do when we flagged ourselves for PvP.

It's the principle of the matter.

You have the ability to prevent anyone from killing you when you don't want to yet you refuse to use it.

Maybe you can't justify it... and you have every right to believe what you believe but MAYBE, just maybe, you shouldn't live in a PvP town if you don't want to participate in PvP when you're hanging around in your house.

Maybe your view will change once Portalrium fixes the game from glaring bugs and exploits. I would live in a PvP town... but, last time I checked, they're owned by players. So that's a no go for me.

I personally don't believe housing has much of functionality in the first place, but that's something else entirely.

 

Speaking of PVP towns... I'm in Cape Havoc right now, just outside my home doing a little PVP swamp fishing. Everyone is welcome to join. Don't mind the Obsidian chickens... (they used to be speckled turkeys - but they ate a bunch of Obsidian chips when they were young).